Writing guitar riffs in odd time signatures

[AudioPhile777]

no strumming except maybe in the intro? what if the song just calls for it?

oh yeah, i've already addressed that one... i love strumming choruses and layering epicness... so thats a no-go. I do that A LOT.

 

[RemoWilliams]

Interesting how some seeing writing out material before hand as being devoid of emotion. Actually, its a good way to break habits and try new ideas. Plus, a lot of concert music is written down and played and rewritten and reworked and still has a metric ton of emotion.

But, back to the time signature thing, thinking of how you want the drum beat to sound is a good start, since the drums are the beat keeper in many ways.

 

[GarethSE]

Interesting how some seeing writing out material before hand as being devoid of emotion. Actually, its a good way to break habits and try new ideas. Plus, a lot of concert music is written down and played and rewritten and reworked and still has a metric ton of emotion.

But, back to the time signature thing, thinking of how you want the drum beat to sound is a good start, since the drums are the beat keeper in many ways.

Nah I just mean the whole act of forcing yourself or someone else to write in a particular way. It just compromises the honesty of a song.

 

[RemoWilliams]

Nah I just mean the whole act of forcing yourself or someone else to write in a particular way. It just compromises the honesty of a song.

Good point. Though, we can all agree at least learning how to handle playing in any odd time signature is a good trait for a musician.

 

[Morgan C]

If you have a negative outlook on life and such, I could see this hitting you as a negative thing... I've been looking at it as a challenge... Just to clarify, my drummer threw this ridiculous email at me and I'm taking it seriously and actually trying to accomplish this...

I can't be bothered getting into an argument over this. You asked for advice, I offered, if you don't like it you don't have to take it, I don't think there's much point in saying I have a negative outlook on life unless you're trying to start an argument. Although, that said, whatever emotion you're conveying is usually lost of the internet, something like "tasked" can be taken either way.. and again, I don't know if you're being sarcastic or serious with me now..

The email seems like a fun challenge, I guess, but probably not the way I'd go about making a song. Everyone mocks Dream Theater, saying they go 'ok well we'll have a short intro with 4 different time signatures, and then go for a 5 minute guitar/keyboard solo battle, then back to the intro in a different key signature and finish it off with another guitar solo, bam 11 minute song'.. when the same thing is applied to you, you seem to take it very personally.

Agreed with Gareth on the lack of emotion side.


I wholeheartedly agree with trying out new things, new genres, whatever. But to restrict yourself so rigidly.. the only time I can think of a use for something like that would be creating a jingle for an advert tbh.

 

[AudioPhile777]

I can't be bothered getting into an argument over this. You asked for advice, I offered, if you don't like it you don't have to take it, I don't think there's much point in saying I have a negative outlook on life unless you're trying to start an argument. Although, that said, whatever emotion you're conveying is usually lost of the internet, something like "tasked" can be taken either way.. and again, I don't know if you're being sarcastic or serious with me now..

The email seems like a fun challenge, I guess, but probably not the way I'd go about making a song. Everyone mocks Dream Theater, saying they go 'ok well we'll have a short intro with 4 different time signatures, and then go for a 5 minute guitar/keyboard solo battle, then back to the intro in a different key signature and finish it off with another guitar solo, bam 11 minute song'.. when the same thing is applied to you, you seem to take it very personally.

Agreed with Gareth on the lack of emotion side.


I wholeheartedly agree with trying out new things, new genres, whatever. But to restrict yourself so rigidly.. the only time I can think of a use for something like that would be creating a jingle for an advert tbh.

I was not trying to pick a fight... merely saying that your reply had, seemingly, no positive aspects to it... you said "I think if you set out trying to create riffs in odd signatures you're going to fall flat on your face" and then you compared what I'm trying to do with a band that you hate and happen to have a particularly negative take on their music...

I don't think it unreasonable, at least at the time of your reply, to think that you view things in a negative light...

As far as you are concerned and one other person... why come to a thread asking advice on how to do something and put down what I'm trying to do? That just plain sucks.

My drummer actually really likes DT and really like progressive music in general and this kind of idea can be expected from him, which is why I think its a fun challenge and was just looking for tip/tricks, not negativity and general put-downs... so when you say that "Everyone mock Dream Theater", you're clearly wrong. I know that there are people on this forum that do like them, though the general consensus is either indifference or a non-liking...

Nah I just mean the whole act of forcing yourself or someone else to write in a particular way. It just compromises the honesty of a song.

There is no force here... and he told said he didn't expect me to try the majority of those items, let alone all of them... so I figured I'd go ahead and try for all of them... thats all.

I've got a lot of ideas from the positive advice here and I'd like to thank those that had given it.

 

[Morgan C]

I was not trying to pick a fight... merely saying that your reply had, seemingly, no positive aspects to it... you said "I think if you set out trying to create riffs in odd signatures you're going to fall flat on your face" and then you compared what I'm trying to do with a band that you hate and happen to have a particularly negative take on their music...

I don't think it unreasonable, at least at the time of your reply, to think that you view things in a negative light...

As far as you are concerned and one other person... why come to a thread asking advice on how to do something and put down what I'm trying to do? That just plain sucks.

My drummer actually really likes DT and really like progressive music in general and this kind of idea can be expected from him, which is why I think its a fun challenge and was just looking for tip/tricks, not negativity and general put-downs... so when you say that "Everyone mock Dream Theater", you're clearly wrong. I know that there are people on this forum that do like them, though the general consensus is either indifference or a non-liking...

Yes, the first half of my first post was very negative.. because its one of the main reasons (along with the endless solo'ing) that DT has gone from being one of my favourite bands to one that I can't listen to their new stuff more than once or twice, because I find it bland and.. bad.

And I didn't say "don't create riffs in odd time sigs, you'll fall flat on your face", I said don't FORCE it. If a riff is in an odd time sig and it sounds good, fine. If you create a riff in 4/4 and then go 'no this needs to be in 5/4' and add an extra couple of palm mutes at the end, then I don't think that's a good way to go about making riffs.

edit; It actually does sound like I said that when out of context. Bad wording on my part.


The second half had no negativity and was exactly what you asked for.. advice on writing guitar riffs in odd time sigs.

And yes.. not everyone mocks DT.. but most do, and most seem to think that this method of forcing time signatures and planning out that you're going to have some massive guitar solo, leads to some pretty bland and repetitive songs. Its just that when I mentioned it here, you took it very personally.. when it wasn't meant to be, its just an aspect of 'progressive' music that I can't stand.



But honestly.. we can nitpick each other's posts all we want, its not going to get either of us anywhere. If you like new Dream Theater, or Symphony X or those technical prog bands, then don't listen to me, as we obviously have different tastes.

 

[AudioPhile777]

If you like new Dream Theater, or Symphony X or those technical prog bands, then don't listen to me, as we obviously have different tastes.

The only DT song I really genuinely like is "Hollow Years"... other than that, meh... they are great live but I can't stand listening to them... mostly because of LaBrie's vocals... the music, I think is great...

Symphony X... it seems like i've grown out of them...

as far as progressive music goes, Pain of Salvation has me 100%... i love their music... and Evergrey... another progressive band I like...

I'm more into stupidheavy (read: stoopidly heavy, as in ridiculously heavy) music (as far as metal goes) like Chimaira, Machine Head... etc etc...


and come on... the nitpicking was a little fun, wasn't it? haha...

 

[drew_drummer]

Your drummer sounds like a nonce. Don't worry, they're all the same; no sense of melody, can't play guitar, so have to use lots of adjectives.

*looks at username*

shit.

 

[drew_drummer]

I personally think Tool are the kings at writing an emotional riff, that is still complex. It just takes keeping in mind, that you're writing a groove, not a mathematic equation.

 

[GarethSE]

There is no force here... and he told said he didn't expect me to try the majority of those items, let alone all of them... so I figured I'd go ahead and try for all of them... thats all.

I've got a lot of ideas from the positive advice here and I'd like to thank those that had given it.

Yeah I wasn't trying to start something either. I'd personally be all over this like a wet t-shirt on some tits if I got an e-mail like that, just for shits and giggles.

 

[musickey]

I tend to write riffs in odd times, My problem is trying to map out the tempo track when its time to record. I have no technical background in music so you can imagine its a nightmare for me. Does anyone have any direction for me?
I typicaly write and record the rough ideas for songs first, and then when the arrangements finalized, i go back and try and figure out the click and then re track the takes. Here is an example rough. http://dl.dropbox.com/u/2245275/Odd.wav

 

[Jeds7800]

Setting rules/restrictions/guidelines for songs can be a lot of fun imho. Like asking a baker to make either a cake or normal bread. The point is to make it taste good.

This is pretty obvious, but sometimes I like to set a met to accent 1 so I can just play around to see how long I have for the riff instead of counting a pattern (i.e. 7/4 = 123,123,1).