Yaotl Mictlan - Mexico's very own Arghoslent!!!

[Jim LotFP]

Yaotl Mictlan was created to fight racist Euro-centrism in all levels of life which are found in the world’s educational systems, science, history, and the media. Eradicating the various effects of the murdering of 80 to 100 million of our people (the whole American continent) that have lead to the destruction of our culture, language, dignity, religions, and self esteem. Yes self Esteem, through direct genocidal colonization we have been thought to be ashamed our color of our skin and to hate anything related to our skin including ourselves!

... the fuck?

It's a fascinating concept, and not one without merit, but the hamfisted militant presentation of the ideas is really awful...

Unless these guys are of pureblooded native stock, then the "our" they are talking about isn't theirs and a Mexican bitching about Euro-centrism would make as much sense as an American doing the same. Shit, even if they are of pure native stock, the "our" they are talking about hasn't existed for what, 500 years? Their fathers' fathers' fathers' fathers didn't have this culture they're longing for.

Even if they are... the people responsible for this "murdering" are long dead (not to mention the vast majority of native deaths were due to disease, and it's not like the Europeans intentionally brought smallpox and what have you with them across the ocean... remember that even though the concepts were floating around for a long time previous, the germ theory of disease was not accepted until the 1800s!), language as a concept outside simply being a means of communication is absolute bullshit, native religions are just as false as alien ones so no loss there (and there's nothing preventing them from practicing an old religion, unless they're upset that other people aren't worshipping with them, or maybe they want legal human sacrifice?), and basing self-esteem and dignity on racial or national heritage is fucking weak.

It's also important to note that the Mayan civilization was already deep into decline when the Spanish came along. It's also important to note that the Aztec/Mexica civilization was hardly something to celebrate - they were a vicious, nasty people.

... all this from Salt Lake City?

We started the band 1999 for the reason mentioned, but there was another factor in play… the black metal scene. You can say we were a part of it then, until racism overwhelmed the scene and our best friends (who are white) started buying in to it. So instead of getting out of the scene we decided to start some resistance to their bullshit.

Surely they didn't show their displeasure by becoming the same thing?

What are the lyrics like? Are they cultural presentations of Old Mexico or is it "Fuck Whitey" or what? And if the lyrics are in English (or Spanish), they're defeating their entire point, aren't they?

 

[JayKeeley]

... the fuck?

It's a fascinating concept, and not one without merit, but the hamfisted militant presentation of the ideas is really awful...

Unless these guys are of pureblooded native stock, then the "our" they are talking about isn't theirs and a Mexican bitching about Euro-centrism would make as much sense as an American doing the same. Shit, even if they are of pure native stock, the "our" they are talking about hasn't existed for what, 500 years? Their fathers' fathers' fathers' fathers didn't have this culture they're longing for.

Even if they are... the people responsible for this "murdering" are long dead (not to mention the vast majority of native deaths were due to disease, and it's not like the Europeans intentionally brought smallpox and what have you with them across the ocean... remember that even though the concepts were floating around for a long time previous, the germ theory of disease was not accepted until the 1800s!), language as a concept outside simply being a means of communication is absolute bullshit, native religions are just as false as alien ones so no loss there (and there's nothing preventing them from practicing an old religion, unless they're upset that other people aren't worshipping with them, or maybe they want legal human sacrifice?), and basing self-esteem and dignity on racial or national heritage is fucking weak.

It's also important to note that the Mayan civilization was already deep into decline when the Spanish came along. It's also important to note that the Aztec/Mexica civilization was hardly something to celebrate - they were a vicious, nasty people.

... all this from Salt Lake City?



Surely they didn't show their displeasure by becoming the same thing?

What are the lyrics like? Are they cultural presentations of Old Mexico or is it "Fuck Whitey" or what? And if the lyrics are in English (or Spanish), they're defeating their entire point, aren't they?

Yeah but who gives a shit about accuracy? The fact is, their point about "leveling the playing field" is spot on accurate and that's all that counts now. For every Arghoslent and Hate Forest, there should absolutely be an antidote.

I would fascinated to see what happens when more black metal begins to emerge from the middle east, parts of Europe, far east etc denouncing the "white" west, modern american christian values, etc, pushing radical socio-political values out there -- if anything, just to see how many people who listen to NSBM today "just because the music is good" not contradict themselves and pay just as much attention to, say, some band supporting Al Queda or whatever through it's music again "just because the music is good".

After all, almost everyone will tell you that lyrics and subject matter are a distant, distant second to the music. It's not even up for debate.

 

[Ellestin]

What Ali, you're not supporting Al Qaeda?

You just shattered my system of belief man...

 

[Jim LotFP]

Yeah but who gives a shit about accuracy? The fact is, their point about "leveling the playing field" is spot on accurate and that's all that counts now. For every Arghoslent and Hate Forest, there should absolutely be an antidote.

But this isn't an antidote, it's (on the surface at least) the exact same shit with a different coat of paint. I'm not unsympathetic to their original point of fighting "racist Euro-centrism" but a heavy metal race-/nation-baiting is a bad idea no matter where the musicians are from or what color their skin is.

if anything, just to see how many people who listen to NSBM today "just because the music is good" not contradict themselves and pay just as much attention to, say, some band supporting Al Queda or whatever through it's music again "just because the music is good".

This would be amusing, yes.

After all, almost everyone will tell you that lyrics and subject matter are a distant, distant second to the music. It's not even up for debate.

Now ask me what I think about what "almost everyone" will tell me. But you should already know that I consider a band's lyrics as important and inextricable from the whole as the riffs and everything else.

On the band's Myspace page, when the band talks about itself and its concept: "Many people really don’t understand what Yaotl Mictlan is all about so not so briefly," music doesn't get discussed until the third following paragraph. Obviously the concept and lyrics are of vital importance to the band, and thus are valid points of discussion.

 

[JayKeeley]

But this isn't an antidote, it's (on the surface at least) the exact same shit with a different coat of paint. I'm not unsympathetic to their original point of fighting "racist Euro-centrism" but a heavy metal race-/nation-baiting is a bad idea no matter where the musicians are from or what color their skin is.

Agreed. I'm just interested to see that metal isn't so self-contained among the safety of white people anymore where it's ok to support racism simply because they know nobody in the audience is going to bat an eyelid. It's actually pretty cowardly when you think about it.

Now ask me what I think about what "almost everyone" will tell me. But you should already know that I consider a band's lyrics as important and inextricable from the whole as the riffs and everything else.

Yes. But you do agree that the vast majority of metal fans really don't give a toss.

On the band's Myspace page, when the band talks about itself and its concept: "Many people really don’t understand what Yaotl Mictlan is all about so not so briefly," music doesn't get discussed until the third following paragraph. Obviously the concept and lyrics are of vital importance to the band, and thus are valid points of discussion.

It probably is, but there's also the chance that they're just overcompensating for something. The first thing most racists do is attempt to justify their racism in some attempt to make it valid.

That said, if musicians are truly genuine about their beliefs -- no matter how absurd -- then it typically translates well through their music, and I think most listeners do tend to favor genuine music over anything, say, manufactured, and all other attributes generally fall to the wayside.

But I digress...I suppose I should go listen to this band.

 

[Necromunchkin]

I was going to say, it doesn't seem a lot different than the usual ethnicist and nationalist paradigms of NSBM and other such music. How many people, even those in said European countries, can claim to be truly involved in a dead, or at least diminished, ancient culture?
If Middle-Eastern bands wanted to follow appropriate suit, however, they would be reviving old heathen religions of the middle east, Babylonian, Egyptian, and Mesopotamian gods and the ancient cultures therein. They should in theory be raging against the rise of Islam.
"It's also important to note that the Mayan civilization was already deep into decline when the Spanish came along. It's also important to note that the Aztec/Mexica civilization was hardly something to celebrate - they were a vicious, nasty people."
And the Spanish were saints who rescued them from their nasty ways, right? The Aztecs (and Mayans) were brutal and primitive... yet advanced in many ways, and their society functioned quite well on those parameters. It mostly outsiders they were vicious towards, and of course European and Asian cultures were NEVER xenophobic or ethnocentric in such a manner.

 

[Reign in Acai]

Xibalba and Argentum rule too!

Brandon, have you heard of Avzhia? I discovered them through Arse Magnolia's distro.

Listen to the song "Victory is Our".

 

[Jim LotFP]

If Middle-Eastern bands wanted to follow appropriate suit, however, they would be reviving old heathen religions of the middle east, Babylonian, Egyptian, and Mesopotamian gods and the ancient cultures therein. They should in theory be raging against the rise of Islam.

ooo, yes!

"It's also important to note that the Mayan civilization was already deep into decline when the Spanish came along. It's also important to note that the Aztec/Mexica civilization was hardly something to celebrate - they were a vicious, nasty people."
And the Spanish were saints who rescued them from their nasty ways, right? The Aztecs (and Mayans) were brutal and primitive... yet advanced in many ways, and their society functioned quite well on those parameters. It mostly outsiders they were vicious towards, and of course European and Asian cultures were NEVER xenophobic or ethnocentric in such a manner.

The Aztecs were a warlike, imperial people, so from an objective (not identifying with the Spanish conquerors or the Aztec conquered) standpoint, it's really a wash historically. Unfortunately, spreading out and subjugating weaker tribes is what humans do... I mean, even saying "Europeans" (and Asians) as a general group in this context is ludicrous considering different European nations have been blowing the shit out of each other right up until 60 years ago (and still deeply divided as of 20 years ago, and still having localized major localized conflict less than 15 years ago). Native American tribes were in constant conflict as well. No good guys in this situation, and no innocent victims. The Aztec culture as it was couldn't have survived anyway, and there is no way whatsoever to know if things would have been better or worse in Latin America today if the Europeans hadn't moved in. Using "ancient pride" as a way of addressing modern day injustices just doesn't get you anywhere.

 

[cthulufhtagn]

Unless these guys are of pureblooded native stock, then the "our" they are talking about isn't theirs and a Mexican bitching about Euro-centrism would make as much sense as an American doing the same. Shit, even if they are of pure native stock, the "our" they are talking about hasn't existed for what, 500 years? Their fathers' fathers' fathers' fathers didn't have this culture they're longing for.

Even if they are... the people responsible for this "murdering" are long dead (not to mention the vast majority of native deaths were due to disease, and it's not like the Europeans intentionally brought smallpox and what have you with them across the ocean... remember that even though the concepts were floating around for a long time previous, the germ theory of disease was not accepted until the 1800s!), language as a concept outside simply being a means of communication is absolute bullshit, native religions are just as false as alien ones so no loss there (and there's nothing preventing them from practicing an old religion, unless they're upset that other people aren't worshipping with them, or maybe they want legal human sacrifice?), and basing self-esteem and dignity on racial or national heritage is fucking weak.

same could be said about a lot of european self-described "pagan" bands...i'm sure this occurred to you, not that it has anything to do with your point

i agree with you that basing self-esteem and dignity on racial or national heritage is indeed weak as fuck. however, i also agree with ali that it's nice to see some balance in the scene in terms of ideology. having cultural pride takes on different meaning when it's a culture historically oppressed and marginalized; not "check it out we're better" but "check it out we're just as valid"

 

[Jim LotFP]

same could be said about a lot of european self-described "pagan" bands...i'm sure this occurred to you, not that it has anything to do with your point

It did occur to me.

i agree with you that basing self-esteem and dignity on racial or national heritage is indeed weak as fuck. however, i also agree with ali that it's nice to see some balance in the scene in terms of ideology. having cultural pride takes on different meaning when it's a culture historically oppressed and marginalized; not "check it out we're better" but "check it out we're just as valid"

My worry is I'm taking the "Eradicating the various effects of the murdering of 80 to 100 million of our people" quote and the comparison here to "On sweating backs of my pals slaves" Arghoslent and making Yaotl Mictlan out to be something that it isn't. Again, I haven't seen the lyrics and I'm ranting on and on about a "what if"... I've sent the band a message with the link to this thread and we'll see if things are clarified.

 

[Necromunchkin]

ooo, yes!



The Aztecs were a warlike, imperial people, so from an objective (not identifying with the Spanish conquerors or the Aztec conquered) standpoint, it's really a wash historically. Unfortunately, spreading out and subjugating weaker tribes is what humans do... I mean, even saying "Europeans" (and Asians) as a general group in this context is ludicrous considering different European nations have been blowing the shit out of each other right up until 60 years ago (and still deeply divided as of 20 years ago, and still having localized major localized conflict less than 15 years ago). Native American tribes were in constant conflict as well. No good guys in this situation, and no innocent victims. The Aztec culture as it was couldn't have survived anyway, and there is no way whatsoever to know if things would have been better or worse in Latin America today if the Europeans hadn't moved in. Using "ancient pride" as a way of addressing modern day injustices just doesn't get you anywhere.

Excellent points, really. Cultural domination, and the subjegation of peoples is symptomatic of human history and sociology, and however it may appear in terms of singular (or plural) cultural contexts, the end result nearly identical on any continent. And no culture survives. They change, or they die out through bein conquered or other factors. Of course the Aztec culture would not have survived, anymore than the Spanish Empire, the British Empire. Ours will decline through one manner or another, it is merely a matter of time.

It is, ultimately, the tendency of a subjegated culture to lash out against those it identifies as oppressors and to romanticize both their struggle and the lost culture (or more accurately, cultural superiority) they believe they once held. It's a basic identity struggle, and while it's more fiction than reality, I'm actually fairly keen on bands who attempt this in their music, even if I wholly disagree with the viewpoint presented (see: numerous NSBM bands).

So long as the music is quality and the artistic intentions are sincere (even if I would never agree with the position presented), I will listen.

 

[Zealotry]

Is it too late to bring up Golgolot?

http://www.myspace.com/golgolotanddarksoul

It's pretty awful musically, but the concept is novel.

 

[Reign in Acai]

here is alot of controversy over Golgolot's views , since we are bashing muslims and christians in our songs , alot of metalers from aboard was thinking of Golgolot as racist band or as "not only the band hates christians and muslims but anything not jewish" (and that is sort of a quote) , well to clear the smoke and shade some light over it, i'll just explain ourselves over here

We hate christians and muslims as we consider them enemies of hebrewism and of hebrew people , this have nothing to do with race
a racist is someone who says "i'm better then you and you'll never be better then me" , that is a racist , I'm not a racist , anyone from any race can become a "ger" (convert to judaism) and be just as good as me , may it be an arab , or a european , or an indian , or a japanese , that doesn't matter , the matter of the fact is , that i Hate mentality , not race ... christianity and islam both preach the same idea which makes them my enemies , each of them describes themselves in the following pattern " christianity/islam is the new testemony/new covanant , christians/muslims are the replacement of the israeli nation ,the israelites are from now on "cursed" and we are the new "chosen people" (ech of them says it on themselves of course)"
That is what both christianity and islam claims , each on its behalf.... This is not acceptable for hebrews to accept such a thing , this are lies , and this is blashphemy in the torah from heavens

this is the first problem , the second one is :

almost two tousand years ago , the hebrew people have been conquered and most of them were exiled , the romans titled our land as "palstine" in order to anger us , for the ancient palstines was our enemies, and we defeated them , but the romans wanted to anger us .... for almost 2000 tousands years , the christians ,and later the muslims as well, has tried to genocide us ,
if anyone thinks that what happened in germany only few years back is somthing special , well he's wrong , the only diffrence was that back in those days there were camera's ... the muslims also did "pogroms" , in hebron 1929 the muslims had butchered over 70 jews , this was more then the pogrom of kishnev ! they has destroyed the jewish communty which lived in hebron in those days, and has been there since over 3000 years ... in the early previous century the jews was returning home and trying to rebuild the land and sattle on it , the arabs and christians who descrated our country for almost 2000 years , had no shame , claiming this was their land , and said that we are thieves , you all see in cnn and other channels of the "poor phalestnian muslims" which claims that their land have been stolen by the evil jews , well fact is , this was our country in the first place much before the madman(mohamed) and that yeshu (jesus yimach shemo) was even theorized . imagen to yourself if adreanus instad of calling judah "palstine" after the romans conquered it , would have called the land "judahia" , would we be fighting against the "judians and arafat (yimach shmo)????" how pathetic is that claim ... anyway ... what islam and christianity has done is byhond forgivness , and those muslim pigs have dared build their mosque's over the holiest place to jews , imagen to youreselves if i would go and built a little synagogue over that camel shit they call kab'ah in mecca

This is the reasons for our hate twords christians and muslims (yes , the people , not just the religion) , no one see's golgolot bashing indians or bushmans right ? ...we hate our enemies with real reasons

about that claims of us hating anything not jewish and all the gentiles over the world , well , this is not correct.... Any gentile who will practise seven noah sons commandments is considred good gentile , a "ben noah" , and have a place in the after world
as for people who belive in other religions , regardless to hate , we just cannot "accept" religions which are not authorized by g-d , when noah and his sons came out of the ark , they were given this 7 commandments , this 7 comandments applies to all gentiles , anyone who accept them is considered as fulfilling his mission on earth and thus is rasing over , sons of israel on the other hand (hebrews) are chosen for a mission and have more commandemnts and laws , it is importent to understand that when we speak about being "chosen people" we mean that we are chosen for a mission , this mission is not a game , hashem itbarach is not a santa claus , we belive in a real g-d who indeed give his blesses and his love when we follow his laws and words and its a a sirouse mission , just as there is good payment when we follow hashem word ,g-dforbid if we dont ....as i said this is not a game , judaism and christianity are adversaries in almost all aspects , alot of times i hear this "comparison" in metal sites and other places "judeo christianity" , that is like saying "assyrian- indianity" no such thing possibal .... the matter of a fact is , christianity has taken (and mis transalted alot , somtimes on purpose) alot of the hebrew bible , they did it for the logic as follows

in the first days of country of israel there was not much money to spand for imports and most was needed for buying weapons , israelis had made a car called "susita" which was made of plastic (really) , how did they convinced people to use it and not treat it as unworthy car ? they used a ford engine in it , since a ford engine is trusted , and considered trustable and good , they was selling a car with some "known" engine in order to make it more acceptable

same for christianity , they belived in lies , how could they make anyone belive in their new religion ? "aha!" they probably said "lets use a good trusted engine for it , somthing which already people accept as truth and considered holy and feared by alot of nations (thats a diffrent story) , the bible !" .... its really like that , in order to sell their lies they brougth with it a book which is trusted and known as truth and mixed it with their new liar religion

i think there are some christians reading this now, and saying to themselves "i'm not the christian he's talking about , i dont hate jews , mabey i shall start doing that now!" or somthing like that

well the reason youre in confusion is very simple , one of the only prophecies made by christian "prophets" was that the jews are cursed and will never have a country in their homeland , cuz the christians are now "the chosen people" and the jews are banished and banned , thefore the jews are supposed to always be a race which doesn't lift his head among the nations and will never return to his ancient land becouse the christians now replaces him and he is banned .... this is an actuall christian "prophecy" and was used by christians for centuries to prove they are "right" ,

when the land of israel was decleared and when the country of the jews was decleared in 1948 ,on their ancient homeland which they had returned to , this was a hammer smashing christianity .... since the christian leaders got scared of the outcome of that their prophecy is broken and untrue , they started making up new stuff , in order to justify christianity ! ... now there is new "prophecies" (pathetic) for the christians , very paranoidic "prophecies" , some has claimed that "its a prophecy" that jews will return to their home land and that is the first step of their false messiah "second coming ", some said that the original christians are not really christians and that the christians really,actually love jews and much more cults with their own claims , some of them really belive in those stuff , brainwash of some 50 years or so...

... anyway , if youre a christian which consider himself as a real beliver in g-d , i would advice you to leave christianity behind and start worship the real g-d , and practise the seven commandments/laws he gave you , for christianity is a lie , how can it be new tesament when in the bible its written that the torah will never change, and that it was for eternity? ... well?.... do you call g-d a lier?

besides ,a religion which claims g-d have placed himself in a women's womb to be born as a human which will loose to his "enemies" and be mocked is outrageously utter rubbish



I read two paragraphs of this diatribe and got a headache. Hang this heeb!!!


There's a couple other bands of this nature, all shat. I'll lazily try and track them down later on.

 

[Hell Mike]

There's a couple other bands of this nature, all shat. I'll lazily try and track them down later on.[/I]

There's also Warlust, but those two are the only ones I know

 

[Zealotry]

I guess since you had Arghoslent in the title I began to expect some awesome riffing

[headdesk]

WHere the hell did this myth come from that Arghoslent has 'awesome riffing'?

Jesus fuck, have you people never heard of Immolation or Bolt Thrower?! THAT is some awesome riffing. Arghoslent just uses the scraps left over from Manilla Road's back catalog and puts monotone death grunts over them.

 

[WhiteBeastofWotan]

The Purging Fires of War has one of the greatest opening riffs of all time.

 

[Zealotry]

Are you fucking serious?

 

[WhiteBeastofWotan]

Absolutely.

 

[Reign in Acai]

Are you purposely acting like a cunt?!? We don't take kindly to GMD outcasts winding up in the white waters of royalty. Take your spic arrogance elsewhere ye fucking Elian.

 

[Zealotry]

Was that directed at me?