Are you saying then it was a bad call?
Thats really what I meant. Also, not a bad idea to stop a power hungry madman from taking over the world and killing ... you know.. an entire fucking religion. However, before you go making the comparison, he was actually well on his way before we did anything about it.
Not a bad call in either case. I actually support the reasons the US entered into all the conflicts being discussed here regardless of which party the President belonged to, or the outcome. Clinton's Balkans War being the exception.
The point is, as Emerald Sword pointed out, it's hypocritical to call Republicans warmongers, when Democrats have involved the US the majority of conflicts. You may not have used the word 'Warmonger," but your quote further down is fairly analogous.
Fortunately history, not the Media, looks back and decides what the right thing to do was. Had the Media of today witnessed the slaughter of thousands of Amercans on the beaches of Normandy WW II would have been lost that day.
I'm not arguing that maybe the Korean conflict and the Vietnam conflict were wrong, but we knew when the hell to leave, and lets face it, we all know how awful the 'Nam war was run. N. Korea is still a huge threat. What I want to know, is they HAVE nukes, we KNOW they have nukes, yet... somehow.. we're in Iraq for that reason? Which.. they don't have them? At all?
When did we leave Korea? Last I checked the DMZ is still seperates the largest buildup of opposing forces in the world. American troops still make up a large part of that contingent.
The problem with Vietnam wasn’t knowing when to get out. The problem was the Armed Forces weren’t allowed to fight the way they should have been. When that’s the case there shouldn’t be any troops there in the first place.
North Korea built their Nuke program under Clinton, while he "negotiated" "agreements" to get them to stop. Agreements they broke as soon as the ink was dry on the paper they signed, because the Clinton administration didn’t verify or enforce those agreements. Not that the Media would report good news on the Bush front, but you might be interested to know that N. Korea has now
stood down its nuke program.
The concern with Iraq wasn't about Nukes. It was about the possibility of Saddam providing chemical and biological weapons to terrorists, which was a grave and frightening possibility in the wake of 9/11. Ironically even though incorrect intelligence was the deciding factor, Saddam would still be in power there had he not hindered the UN inspectors from verifying that he didn’t have them.
I was never one to say Democrats are perfect. Look at 2004. It was a horrid year for Dems in the election. They couldn't win that election with Kerry if he ran unopposed.
... I agree, both parties have basically ruined the government.
Both parties have much to answer for; however, in the history of the United States it is the Democrats that socialize the country in huge chunks at a time. This is one of the most ironic things I have ever noticed whenever discussing politics, especially with Democrats. I hear or read how individuals hate the government, and they think that Big Brother should stay out of our lives. Yet they vote for the party that invariably increases their dependence, and everyone else’s for that matter, on said government. Examples include Social Security, Medicare, Welfare, and in the possible future Healthcare. Big Brother has hooked millions of people on government dependency, and yet the Democrats want to expand that dependency yet again.
All of those programs are ineptly run and Social Security is doomed to fail within 20 years. That’s not fatalism, it’s math. Few people realize that already over 60% of the federal budget now goes to paying entitlements. That number is going to grow exponentially as the baby boomers start collecting their share. Do people really want to add 12% of the entire GDP to the already out of control entitlement spending? Do people really want the government in control of their Healthcare? Unbelievable.
And a long time since a republican didn't say "Shut up and do what I tell you! Go die for the USA so I can get caught in gay and child sex scandals!"
Brilliant Nailz. That’s your reponse to the fact that the Democrats have gone from the party who’s leader made the “Ask not…” speech to the party of huge giveaway programs?
First, one really has nothing to do with the other.
Second, it’s interesting that your statement comes so few posts after you stated “edit: Also I don't see republicans as warmongers...” Yet even after it’s been adequately pointed out to you that Democrats have sent most soldiers into war it’s Republicans who say "Shut up and do what I tell you! Go die for the USA so I can get caught in gay and child sex scandals!"
Third, you want to lay sending people to die for sex scandals at the Republicans' doorstep? One word, Nailz: Kosovo.
Unbelievably your next statement is…
Never saw it, and never really understood why the Sex scandal was so absolutely rediculious. You know, honestly, I don't think whatever war Bill got us into made the news much, because I really don't have any rememberance of it.
I don’t suppose you notice much of a double standard there?
Just for the record the Sex Scandal really wasn’t that big a deal. Bill Clinton could have fucked every intern, secretary, housekeeper, and donut in the White House if he wanted to. What was a big deal was a President perjuring himself before the congress regarding that Sex Scandal.
I suspect that a lot of people would consider it relevent that Bill Clinton is the only elected President in the history of the United States to be impeached. Not for sex. For perjury.
What you choose to listen to or watch is entirely up to you. I can assure you that Clinton's wars were damn sure covered in the news during the 1990's. Both in the Balkands and Somalia. Enough so that a fairly prominent project was based on each of them. Savatage's "Dead Winter Dead," which in turn spawned TSO, was a concept album based on the Balkans War. TSO still refers to the Balkands War and Sarajevo to this day in the narration during their live shows. "Blackhawk Down" was a true story of an incident in Somalia.
Frankly, I think there's a lot to be said about stopping a tyrant in WWI too. I think if Vietnam came out better it would've had a happier place in histroy, and I'm sure the South Koreans are thankful.
That said, I have no problem with Desert Storm and Protecting Kuait. (sp?) ... I don't have a problem with being in Afghanistan. I didn't really have a problem with invading Iraq. I didn't like it, but I figured we'd be in and out in 3 years. I'm pissed because I feel we're only there for special interests. And I don't care WHO The president claims to answer to, thats not right.
The reasons we are there can be argued forever to no conclusion. Support the war or not the fact is WE own it. We started it and are therefore obligated to finish it. The more important thing is that if we leave Iraq in chaos the consequences will be severe.
Not even Hilary is that stupid. Obama can talk about hope and change all he wants. Gasoline costing $6 per gallon will bring about much change, and quickly crush hope for many.
