actually, I'm seeing it quite the opposite way
The strings vibrate (logically) more freely the more "room" they have, thus resonating more, am I right?
Your palm muting "position"?
- Thread starter abyssofdreams
- Start date
actually, I'm seeing it quite the opposite way
The strings vibrate (logically) more freely the more "room" they have, thus resonating more, am I right?
deanbailey
O.C.D Member
Managed to get someone to save and send me the pic 'cuz i couldn't see it lol
anyway It seems I'm the only "between 5.5 and 6"er.
But i change the position depending on the type of riff 'cuz it might call for a different type of mute.
And also i get closer to the bridge the higher the string is.
the guys that chose between 1 and 1.5, how small are your hands!?
anyway It seems I'm the only "between 5.5 and 6"er.
But i change the position depending on the type of riff 'cuz it might call for a different type of mute.
And also i get closer to the bridge the higher the string is.
the guys that chose between 1 and 1.5, how small are your hands!?
Fifth_Horseman
Watch out, it's sharp!
Ok...
my palm is very close to the saddles of the TOM bridge (all my guitars are string-thru Jacksons BTW), and I have the pick between 7 and 7.5. Though my hands aren't big, I have my fingers stretched out quite far when picking. I would describe the sound as rather chunky, which is what I go for. Doesn't get muddy with my Fireball either...
Moving the palm farther away from the bridge results in higher pitch for me, so I avoid that.
I think that the vibrating string length is actually shortened when I mute with the palm away from the bridge (either that or it is because of the added pressure on the strings). I dig in quite hard on the mutes as well... I like chunk.
my palm is very close to the saddles of the TOM bridge (all my guitars are string-thru Jacksons BTW), and I have the pick between 7 and 7.5. Though my hands aren't big, I have my fingers stretched out quite far when picking. I would describe the sound as rather chunky, which is what I go for. Doesn't get muddy with my Fireball either...
Moving the palm farther away from the bridge results in higher pitch for me, so I avoid that.
I think that the vibrating string length is actually shortened when I mute with the palm away from the bridge (either that or it is because of the added pressure on the strings). I dig in quite hard on the mutes as well... I like chunk.
Kinda off-topic, but EC-1000's kick ass. I love mine.
That is all.
Oh, and my palm is always right at the bridge. My pick goes anywhere from 4-6.
~006
That is all.
Oh, and my palm is always right at the bridge. My pick goes anywhere from 4-6.
~006
AdamWathan
Member
actually, I'm seeing it quite the opposite way
The strings vibrate (logically) more freely the more "room" they have, thus resonating more, am I right?
Go pick up your guitar and pick a note right in front of the bridge. It sounds way more pingy and defined. Now strum some chords while picking over the 12th fret, way muddier. Same reason the bridge pickup sounds tight and defined while the neck pickup sounds smoother and less trebly...
Aaron Smith
Envisage Audio
Weird, I didn't realize so many people actually played palm mutes so far up from the bridge. I've been playing them with my palm just touching the bridge for as long as I can remember, which would be at least seven years now. On that scale I would be like a -1.5 or so. It has always sounded way more controlled to me, and definitely thicker because the vibration doesn't get killed near as quickly.
Loren Littlejohn
Lover of all boobage.
My hands are big so my answer probably isn't true. I said between 5.5 and 6.
When I think about it though it's more than likely around 7.5 and 8.
When I think about it though it's more than likely around 7.5 and 8.
AdamWathan
Member
He's asking where the pick hits the strings, not where your palm is. Everyone rests their palm right at the bridge
::XeS::
Member
Yupp, looks like a lot of people misunderstood what I was asking. I was talking about the pick position, not the palm itself.
Either that or we have more midgets on this board than we thought we would have
Either that or we have more midgets on this board than we thought we would have
AdamWathan
Member
No no...I thought that is what he meant anyway...but everyone responding made it seem like they put their palm away from the bridge.
I was going for a BA in English Literature before I decided to stop college and work full-time as an engineer so it's not my fault if other people can't respond properly or have vague posts. The problem isn't me being illiterate - because I'm not.
~006
I was going for a BA in English Literature before I decided to stop college and work full-time as an engineer so it's not my fault if other people can't respond properly or have vague posts. The problem isn't me being illiterate - because I'm not.
~006
Okay...
Palm muting farther from the bridge (picking position and force held the same) gives a more 'choked' sound with less of everything and much less of anything that isn't the original 'woof'. Picking farther from the bridge (force held the same - BIG DIFFERENCE THAT SOME PEOPLE OVERLOOK) gives a rounder, less trebly sound.
When your string is vibrating, there are about a gazillion 'extra' vibrations (harmonics) in addition to the fundamental. You'll recall that you can produce harmonics by holding the string at certain points while picking... one of these points (let's pick 5th fret for the two-octaves-above harmonic) is called a 'node' for that harmonic. We'll get back to that.
Okay, so the usual analogy for a vibrating string is a jumprope. If you have two kids swinging a jumprope up and down uniformly, you have what looks like a big oval with no 'breaks' in the middle. This is what the fundamental would look like if that (and only that) rang out.
Now, have a third little bastard come along and hold it right in the middle. You'll have two ovals, half the length of the original, and if the kid grabbed it the right way the frequency would be twice as high. This is the harmonic you'd see if you held the 12th fret. The tension and string mass are the same, but the effective string length is half so the frequency is doubled (just like it would if you fretted the note at that point) - that vibration actually will look more like a very sideways and stretched out S, because one side goes up and the others go down, and the point in the middle where no vibrations occurs is the node... the vibration is now 'pivoting' around the two kids on the end and the one holding it in the middle. When you fret a string at the 12th fret, the effective length is cut in half, so it sounds an octave higher - this is like what's happening here, but because of the way the string vibrates this 'extra' vibration pops up.
At tons of places (the only bound for the number is the physical limitations of the string) you'll have nodes for this harmonic, that harmonic, whatever... the 7th/19th fret harmonic 'cuts' the string into thirds, the 5th/24th fret harmonic cuts the strings into fourths, and so on. So when you hold the string at some point, any harmonic that does not have a node (or that has some vibration at that point) is cut out and any harmonic that does have a node is relatively unaffected.
The harmonic 'nodes' actually wind up at spots on the string that are one 1/n*length (where n is any positive integer... so 1/1, 1/2, 1/3, 1/4, et cetera), so in order to preserve a given harmonic you have to not touch the string at any point that is not one its nodes or you will deaden it. When you deaden the string farther out, you're choking off a larger range of harmonics, and that's why muting the string farther out is darker and rounder. As far as picking farther out or farther in... slightly more complicated, but until I get to that just trust me that the higher harmonics are brought out more by picking nearer the bridge (clearly intuitive, if you just pick here and there on the string and listen closely, I'll explain the math when I'm not about to go eat) and this will be finished soon.
Jeff
Palm muting farther from the bridge (picking position and force held the same) gives a more 'choked' sound with less of everything and much less of anything that isn't the original 'woof'. Picking farther from the bridge (force held the same - BIG DIFFERENCE THAT SOME PEOPLE OVERLOOK) gives a rounder, less trebly sound.
When your string is vibrating, there are about a gazillion 'extra' vibrations (harmonics) in addition to the fundamental. You'll recall that you can produce harmonics by holding the string at certain points while picking... one of these points (let's pick 5th fret for the two-octaves-above harmonic) is called a 'node' for that harmonic. We'll get back to that.
Okay, so the usual analogy for a vibrating string is a jumprope. If you have two kids swinging a jumprope up and down uniformly, you have what looks like a big oval with no 'breaks' in the middle. This is what the fundamental would look like if that (and only that) rang out.
Now, have a third little bastard come along and hold it right in the middle. You'll have two ovals, half the length of the original, and if the kid grabbed it the right way the frequency would be twice as high. This is the harmonic you'd see if you held the 12th fret. The tension and string mass are the same, but the effective string length is half so the frequency is doubled (just like it would if you fretted the note at that point) - that vibration actually will look more like a very sideways and stretched out S, because one side goes up and the others go down, and the point in the middle where no vibrations occurs is the node... the vibration is now 'pivoting' around the two kids on the end and the one holding it in the middle. When you fret a string at the 12th fret, the effective length is cut in half, so it sounds an octave higher - this is like what's happening here, but because of the way the string vibrates this 'extra' vibration pops up.
At tons of places (the only bound for the number is the physical limitations of the string) you'll have nodes for this harmonic, that harmonic, whatever... the 7th/19th fret harmonic 'cuts' the string into thirds, the 5th/24th fret harmonic cuts the strings into fourths, and so on. So when you hold the string at some point, any harmonic that does not have a node (or that has some vibration at that point) is cut out and any harmonic that does have a node is relatively unaffected.
The harmonic 'nodes' actually wind up at spots on the string that are one 1/n*length (where n is any positive integer... so 1/1, 1/2, 1/3, 1/4, et cetera), so in order to preserve a given harmonic you have to not touch the string at any point that is not one its nodes or you will deaden it. When you deaden the string farther out, you're choking off a larger range of harmonics, and that's why muting the string farther out is darker and rounder. As far as picking farther out or farther in... slightly more complicated, but until I get to that just trust me that the higher harmonics are brought out more by picking nearer the bridge (clearly intuitive, if you just pick here and there on the string and listen closely, I'll explain the math when I'm not about to go eat) and this will be finished soon.
Jeff
AdamWathan
Member
I don't think you'd be posting here very often if you couldn't read
Aaron Smith
Envisage Audio
He's asking where the pick hits the strings, not where your palm is. Everyone rests their palm right at the bridge
Haha...got it
I started messing around more recently though with putting my palm further up from the bridge, and although it obviously sounds very different, it's kind of cool sounding...A LOT like the tone at the beginning of the title track from "obZen". I'm not sure if this is because they actually played it away from the bridge, or if it's just the loose, super down-tuned strings with not a whole lot of gain...
kev
Im guybrush threepwood
Palm muting right on the bridge, so about -1 on the diagram. Standard pick position is about 5 i would say, but if its sweeps i move up to around 8 or 10 for that warmer more fluid tone.
kev
Im guybrush threepwood
FULLMETALSPEEDO
Member
depends on your definition of muddiness
if you mute and pick closer to the bridge, then there is more definition to the note, which to some is "clarity"
-if you mute further from the bridge, then you get more attack, less note (because the string vibrates less duh). this is "muddy " to some, clarity to others
at some point a mute close to the neck becomes more of a pick scrape ( think smells like teen spirit)
picking closer to the neck is def. muddier ( think of the difference in sound between a bridge pickup and a neck pickup, the difference is more dependent on the position rather than the pick up)
picking closer to neck will effect tone similar to the position of a pick up
this is kind of simple and not something really worthy of in depth conversation imo
if you mute and pick closer to the bridge, then there is more definition to the note, which to some is "clarity"
-if you mute further from the bridge, then you get more attack, less note (because the string vibrates less duh). this is "muddy " to some, clarity to others
at some point a mute close to the neck becomes more of a pick scrape ( think smells like teen spirit)
picking closer to the neck is def. muddier ( think of the difference in sound between a bridge pickup and a neck pickup, the difference is more dependent on the position rather than the pick up)
picking closer to neck will effect tone similar to the position of a pick up
this is kind of simple and not something really worthy of in depth conversation imo
