2014 Grammy Nominees - Best metal performance
- Thread starter miel
- Start date
labrekk
Member
Couldn't agree more. I've always felt that growling (like rapping) is for people who can't sing but still want to be in a band.
I can't stand either one. If someone likes it, good for them I just don't see the appeal. To me, it's comparable to someone singing the lyrics with the exact same note for the entire song no melody, so it's boring, monotonous, and grating.
Like labrekk said, many songs/bands are "ruined" for me because of the rap or growl vocals. I don't mind them so much as a brief "accent" (ie. the way Pain of Salvation uses them), but if it's the whole song??? Blech.
But to each his/her own...
Mardoch
Defender of the Universe
Couldn't agree more. I've always felt that growling (like rapping) is for people who can't sing but still want to be in a band.
That's because you don't know how hard it is to not suck at it. In order to growl worth a damn you must first be able to sing. And be good at it. Even if the tone is bad the skills must be good.
Your prejudice against it blinds you to the intricacies therein.
I used to be a growl hater too. Strid was the first one to make it sound like something meaningful to me. Then Älvestam. Then I started to understand it more. I don't know that I'd say I like it now, but I can certainly appreciate it. Done properly it adds a lot to a song. It's obviously not meant for all styles.
Absolutely. Different strokes for different folks.
labrekk
Member
Couldn't agree more. I've always felt that growling (like rapping) is for people who can't sing but still want to be in a band.
I can't stand either one. If someone likes it, good for them I just don't see the appeal. To me, it's comparable to someone singing the lyrics with the exact same note for the entire song no melody, so it's boring, monotonous, and grating.
Like labrekk said, many songs/bands are "ruined" for me because of the rap or growl vocals. I don't mind them so much as a brief "accent" (ie. the way Pain of Salvation uses them), but if it's the whole song??? Blech.
But to each his/her own...
Great minds think alike
General Zod
Ruler of Australia
I think there's some truth in this statement. I do think it's easier to learn how to growl and be passable at it, than learn how to sing properly and be good. However, the problem with painting with such a broad brush is, there are quite a few vocalists who can sing (and sing well), who choose to use "growl" vocals.
I think there are a lot of shitty growl vocalists out there, who aren't capable of conveying much with their vocals aside from a sense of aggression. However, not unlike traditional vocalists, there are those who can convey a lot of a emotion, with a lot of variety, inflection, nuance, etc.
AeonicSlumber
srs
- Aug 14, 2008
- 4,893
- 0
- 36
Screaming vocals aren't supposed to be high brow, it's just a guy who's really pissed off. Metal is angry music. I don't get what the difficulty is with people trying to conflate it with something more than that. I really don't think Cronos was thinking about whether or not "Welcome to Hell" would be featured in a modern art museum when he sung on it.
In a nutshell, I think that's my problem with trying to avoid screaming vocals and then claiming to be a fan of metal. To me, it's like, who are you trying to kid here? What exactly is it about "metal" that you like? If all the "metal" bands you listen to have operatic vocals over guitars that are just power chords and keyboards dialed up way high in the mix - to me that isn't metal to begin with. Metal is about riffs, and it's about aggression. If that isn't conveyed, then I wouldn't call that metal. The first two Sabbath records, for the time they came out in (and honestly even now) are furious sounding. They're abrasive, and full of gigantic riffs. People were legitimately scared of those songs. That's what metal is about.
And don't get me wrong, I love all sorts of music, including AOR, alternative, punk, and modern rock, but at the same time - I also understand metal for what it is and I don't pretend it's something it's not either. But then again, opinions are like assholes and everyone has one. People can like what they like and have their different views on what constitutes what - but I certainly don't get it, ha.
labrekk
Member
I don't listen to metal in order to scare myself or people around (it was maybe the case when I was a teen, searching for the heaviest and scariest bands around, which were Sodom, Possessed, Destruction, Slayer and the likes, but it's not the case anymore).
I like heavy guitars, nice riffing and good melodies, with clean vocals (or I should say no growls cause I enjoy a band like Grave Digger and the vocals are surely not that "clean"). That's heavy metal for me. Volbeat is metal, Dio is metal, Slayer is metal, Pretty Maids is metal, Dream Theater is metal.
The problem is that the definition of metal changed over the years. What was "heavy metal" 20 or 30 years ago is now classed as "hard rock", while "heavy metal" is reserved for the heavier bands with extreme vox. That's bullshit as far as I'm concerned. Judas Priest or Nocturnal Rites are as "heavy metal" as Soilwork or Cannibal Corpse or any extreme band for me.
PromisedLand
Master of Corgis
- Sep 3, 2013
- 729
- 4
- 18
I used to hate growling, but I adapted.
That said, most of the local bands I wind up seeing as add-ons to a national tour tend to have bands with vocalists that just do the same "ruff! ruff! ruff!" growling and fit words into the pattern, which sounds like ass.
That said, most of the local bands I wind up seeing as add-ons to a national tour tend to have bands with vocalists that just do the same "ruff! ruff! ruff!" growling and fit words into the pattern, which sounds like ass.
AngraRULES
Member
IMO you can still have an aggressive, scary song without the need to have growls in it.
That being said, I like growls just fine. The notion that you "if you growl/scream, it means you probably suck at everything else in music" is one of the most ridiculous things I've ever heard. It does take knowing how to do it. If you don't believe me, ask Melissa Cross.
That being said, I like growls just fine. The notion that you "if you growl/scream, it means you probably suck at everything else in music" is one of the most ridiculous things I've ever heard. It does take knowing how to do it. If you don't believe me, ask Melissa Cross.
dcowboys311
Member
Actually, no. Heavy Metal is still your Priests and Maidens, your Holcausts and Saxons, your Riots and Manilla Roads. Or for newer bands, High Spirits and Borrowed Time and In Solitude and on and on and on. Those 'heavier' bands are death/black/doom/etc...
/genrepoliceover
And also on a side note, the NR choice is funny to me because they started as a death metal band!
Likewise with me. I didn't get Death or Doom metal or growls at all. I think it was when my son turned me on to Dark Tranquility that I started coming around. There's a place for just about everything (female opera voice is a classic example). One of my favorite projects that never leaves the car is Droid. A max duration, top-o-the lungs, vein popping scream just makes me happy!
dcowboys311
Member
There are literally hundreds of great metal bands that are not about riffs and/or aggression...but many of the best bring both in spades.
labrekk
Member
This is true for us "in the know" who are music maniacs and visit music forums. But listen to general radio stations or so and the "heavy metal" channels will now be filled most of the time by more extreme bands, while the classic metal ones will be more on the "hard rock" channel.
To make things short, it looks for some that Priest, Saxon, Maiden and the likes are now not heavy enough to be classified as metal compared to the more extreme bands, which is what I think is bullshit.
dcowboys311
Member
Fair point. However, I think that has less to do with what is 'metal' vs 'not metal' and more to do with playing towards your audience. You're probably gonna hear rock bands like Slipknot or Disturbed on the 'metal' station too. Some crossover is inevitable.
Jasonic
Doom On!
Brian,
You are a rare breed of younger guys who know the difference.
I will never forget being at a Kataklysm / Haunted / Shai Hulud / Bleeding Through show about 10 years ago and talking to a lot of people outside.
We were talking about bands we liked, and some younger kids cringed when I mentioned bands like Manowar or Saxon. Their response, was, "Ewww.. that's like classic rock" LOL......
Granted, since then, a whole new generation has been exposed to Priest and Maiden and Sabbath, but it hasn't come around full circle to the Riot, Omen, and Manilla Road level.
As someone stated above, whenever mainstream media is involved with something "metal" it's always something with growls or forced aggression (most notably nu metal). Even when MTV brought back Headbangers Ball with Jamey from HateBreed, it was primarily nu metal or metalcore, death metal, etc, etc......
You are a rare breed of younger guys who know the difference.
I will never forget being at a Kataklysm / Haunted / Shai Hulud / Bleeding Through show about 10 years ago and talking to a lot of people outside.
We were talking about bands we liked, and some younger kids cringed when I mentioned bands like Manowar or Saxon. Their response, was, "Ewww.. that's like classic rock" LOL......
Granted, since then, a whole new generation has been exposed to Priest and Maiden and Sabbath, but it hasn't come around full circle to the Riot, Omen, and Manilla Road level.
As someone stated above, whenever mainstream media is involved with something "metal" it's always something with growls or forced aggression (most notably nu metal). Even when MTV brought back Headbangers Ball with Jamey from HateBreed, it was primarily nu metal or metalcore, death metal, etc, etc......
AeonicSlumber
srs
- Aug 14, 2008
- 4,893
- 0
- 36
I could feel you on the aggression bit I suppose, but any band that isn't about riffs and calls itself metal is definitely not "great" as far as I'm concerned.
I just want the people who listen to the heavy, growling side of music to understand that power metal is still metal. Yes, Hansi doesn't growl. It's still metal. Growling is a tool, not a measure of quality.
Mardoch
Defender of the Universe
So keyboard or drum driven metal isn't metal? AKA Warmen's solo discs need not apply? (or anything like that)
I think that's pretty silly, personally.
AeonicSlumber
srs
- Aug 14, 2008
- 4,893
- 0
- 36
I never listened to Warmen, I always thought it was just CoB but without vocals? If it's just galloping power chords with keyboard fluttering around, yeah I wouldn't really call that metal (but on the other hand, I wouldn't say that has any effect on the actual quality of the music), and sure, you can think that's silly. I never said that people have to agree with me.
Similar threads
