5150 not loud enough?!?

[MetalSound]

Just got a 5150 used for 750 Euro. It sounds great but it is not loud enough. I also have a Laney VH 100R which is much louder!! I have the master volume at 3 with the Laney and at 7 (!!!) with the peavey.
Unfortunately the 5150 doesn´t sound good anymore at master volume 7. Everything above 4 kills all the definition and punch in the bass. It´s just getting muddy.

Is this normal for the 5150? I put some new tubes in there but nothing changed...
Can it be that 100 watt from the Laney is much louder than 120 Watt from the Peavey or is there something wrong with my amp?!?

 

[egan.]

I have no idea relative to the laney, but every 5150 I've used was extremely loud at 4. I'm not sure I've even heard one at 7.

 

[Denial Machine]

Could mean the power tubes are dying. 5150s with pre-gain on 5.5 and master on 4 are super loud.

 

[Jarkko Mattheiszen]

Did you replace the powertubes, too? Our other guitarist has a 5150, and it has never been at even 12'o clock. And our volume level at rehearsals is somewhat high.

 

[greyskull]

5150's are fucking loud.
either turn your middle up, or your tubes are dead

 

[Darkening]

5150 not loud enough?!?!



Replace the power tubes.

 

[MetalWorks]

Every 5150 I have ever played turns to mud past 4.

I needed it at like 6 to be loud enough for my drummer and it turns muddy.

They all sound best around 3 to 4.

My friend has been trying the amp on Rythm Channel with the gain around 7 with a tube screamer and he is quite happy both volume and sound wise.

The 5150 is awesome for recording and for being mic'd at a club.

But not so great when trying to keep up with loud drummers on its own or other local gigs with no PA other than vocals.

Maybe if you fed the line out into a separate poweramp it might solve the problem but thats just more money and gear to connect and lug around.

Im guessing thats why Eddie has the Palmer Speaker Emulator to hook his head to a dummy cab for safety and then into the H&H Poweramps which not only gives him a stereo effects setup but are probably much louder than the 5150 itself.

 

[MetalSound]

Hey MetalWorks, thanks for this answer. That´s exactly what I wanted to hear. I replaced the power tubes, too, and it didn´t change anything.

As soon as the master volume goes beyond 4 the 5150 sounds like crap. Unfortunatley we have a very loud drummer and I have to turn up to 7 to compete with him (although we only have one guitar!!!).
Maybe I should stick with my Laney for the rehearsal room and keep the Peavey for recording....

 

[MetalWorks]

Hey MetalWorks, thanks for this answer. That´s exactly what I wanted to hear. I replaced the power tubes, too, and it didn´t change anything.

As soon as the master volume goes beyond 4 the 5150 sounds like crap. Unfortunatley we have a very loud drummer and I have to turn up to 7 to compete with him (although we only have one guitar!!!).
Maybe I should stick with my Laney for the rehearsal room and keep the Peavey for recording....

Is there any way you can try Slaving your Laney head?

Run the 5150 Line out or Preamp Out into the Laney Effects Return Jack and try using the Laney as a Power Amp.

If you have 2 cabs you can keep 1 connected to your peavey and the other cab on the laney.

Or you would need a dummy load/cab emulator to save your 5150 head if you cant have a speaker connected to that and your laney.

But yeah, I had the same problem and ended selling my 5150 because it wasnt loud enough.

I regret it now that I am into recording.

You would probably be amazed at how slaving with another head or even using a QSC RMX850 amp for only $300 sounds volume wise.

 

[VH100R]

You are right man... the 5150 isn't loud as a laney.

everyone who says otherwise haven't heard a laney side by side.

even my buddy's dual recto can't push the same volume has my laney which I am running at 50W instead of 100W (2 tubes pulled out).

engls don't have much volume too... They are good for home recording and studio because of that IMO but lack serious volume.

laney is loud as fuck

 

[JeffTD]

5150's stop getting louder at 5, and just get more compressed and muddy past that.

 

[MetalSound]

What a shame for poor Eddie VH. His 120 Watt amp can´t compete with a 100 Watt Laney.

Even my single Recitifier with only 50 Watt is louder.

 

[greyskull]

i dont know what 5150s youve heard?! mine is an ear melter on 4

 

[MetalWorks]

Maybe its a perception thing or perhaps some people arent playing with a loud drummer or something.

But any standard player with a Marshall 4x12 and a stock 5150 I have ever known has complained about lack of volume before turning to mud in a "BAND" situation.

Could be the setup.

I know I guy who turns his mids all the way up with medium highs and lows and runs a SD-1 Overdrive on the Rythm Channel through a Mesa 4x12 with Vintage 30's and he gets good volume, but the tone isnt the greatest.

I still think the bottom line is that its a great amp for recording and mic'd gigs but lacking for the average local band rehearsal or small setup gigs.

 

[Jarkko Mattheiszen]

I know it probably isn't the correct way, but you could always mic your 5150 at rehearsal to get a bit more volume. We always mic our amps and run them through the PA as a getaround for feedback issues and the lack of proper monitoring.

 

[MetalSound]

Yeah but our PA is very bad. It even starts to clip when our singer sings and when there is antoher sound source going through the PA it would die within a minute.

Any idea if the 6505 is as "quiet" as the 5150 is?
It should be when it is the "same" amp, isn´t it?

 

[Jarkko Mattheiszen]

Yeah but our PA is very bad. It even starts to clip when our singer sings and when there is antoher sound source going through the PA it would die within a minute.

Oh, then that's of no use

Any idea if the 6505 is as "quiet" as the 5150 is?
It should be when it is the "same" amp, isn´t it?

I have never played a 6505, but it's supposed to have the identical circuitry. The only difference is the name.

 

[Exocaster]

Maybe its a perception thing or perhaps some people arent playing with a loud drummer or something.

But any standard player with a Marshall 4x12 and a stock 5150 I have ever known has complained about lack of volume before turning to mud in a "BAND" situation.

Could be the setup.

I know I guy who turns his mids all the way up with medium highs and lows and runs a SD-1 Overdrive on the Rythm Channel through a Mesa 4x12 with Vintage 30's and he gets good volume, but the tone isnt the greatest.

I still think the bottom line is that its a great amp for recording and mic'd gigs but lacking for the average local band rehearsal or small setup gigs.

Yikes! 5150 with the mids cranked through V30s and an SD-1? I love mids, don't get me wrong, but that's gotta be high mid city with that setup. You could probably kill small animals with the amount of 2-3khz coming out of that rig!

I've never thought 5150s were all that loud; maybe it's just me. Same deal with Rectos. I've stood in front of my Mesa Stiletto (100 watt, pretty much the same deal power-wise as a Recto, but with EL34s) with the channel and master dimed, no earplugs, and it's not deafening. It's very loud- it had better be, it's a 100 watt half stack turned up all the way- but it's not terrible. Newer Marshalls, same deal, not a ton of volume.

My main amp was a Mesa Mark IV for a couple years. It's nominally only 85 watts. It's retardedly loud. I could get enough volume out of that thing for my eardrums to start distorting, and it wasn't near up all the way. The absolute loudest thing I've ever owned? a 1976 Marshall JMP 2204. 50 watts. It cut loud and clear in a band mix on 2. Not 2 o'clock, 2 on a dial numbered 1-10. And it just keeps getting louder. A lot of old-school amps will bury modern high gainers for sheer volume. This isn't necessarily a bad thing. Modern amps are certainly more controllable and get better tones at reasonable levels. Yes a '70s Marshall is plenty loud on 2, but whether it sounds good at that setting is another story entirely. An old Marshall without the power section pushed even a tiny bit? Well, I kept my presence and treble on 0, if that tells you anything.

But I digress.

 

[2012]

Same deal with Rectos. I've stood in front of my Mesa Stiletto (100 watt, pretty much the same deal power-wise as a Recto, but with EL34s) with the channel and master dimed, no earplugs, and it's not deafening. It's very loud- it had better be, it's a 100 watt half stack turned up all the way- but it's not terrible.

I'd like to see you do that w/ my Dual Rec. I don't know exactly what the differences are in between the Stilleto and the Rectifier (obvious tube difference), but I know that every Dual I've played will make you sterile if you stand in front of it with the channel and master dimed! Even using a Single Rec or pulling two power tubes doesn't make much difference. They are most certainly deafening, if you ask me! If you can stand to be in the same room as a Dual on 10, you must have some serious hearing loss, or you're more of a man than I am!

Beyond that, they just don't sound good when they're dimed. Rectifiers get the majority of their tone from the preamp section.

 

[Exocaster]

I'd like to see you do that w/ my Dual Rec. I don't know exactly what the differences are in between the Stilleto and the Rectifier (obvious tube difference), but I know that every Dual I've played will make you sterile if you stand in front of it with the channel and master dimed! Even using a Single Rec or pulling two power tubes doesn't make much difference. They are most certainly deafening, if you ask me! If you can stand to be in the same room as a Dual on 10, you must have some serious hearing loss, or you're more of a man than I am!

Beyond that, they just don't sound good when they're dimed. Rectifiers get the majority of their tone from the preamp section.

To be fair, I only played for a minute or two, and I was in a very large room- I'd say 20x40 feet, with 15 foot ceilings, which probably helped a bit. It was very loud, enough to drown out a drummer entirely; it certainly wasn't pleasant or anything I'd want to do again... just that an old-school Marshall and a Mesa Mark series are even louder.

As far as useable, real-world settings for the Dual Rec and the Stiletto, I haven't seen any appreciable difference as far as getting up to live band volume is concerned. I'd say 11 o'clock is loud enough for most anything on either, and I've used both. I can't say I've ever gone past 1 o'clock for any reason other than to test the amp, no matter the size of the room or the beastliness of the drummer.

The Stiletto sounds like a bucket of ass maxed out. Modern amps aren't really meant to have the power tubes, phase inverter and output transformer saturating like that. I've never maxed out a Dual Rec, but I can assume it's the same. I know with the Stiletto I don't really get any more volume past about 2:30 or so on the master. The JMP and the Mark IV I never cranked up. They were loud enough on their own. These are amps that can hang with a metal band on 2 and 3 respectively, and I know how they are beyond that- to a point- so I never felt the need.

The last time I ever forgot my earplugs was the time I mentioned in my previous post with the Mark IV... never again. I need earplugs no matter what as my drummer's snare is uncomfortably loud without them. Thankfully my hearing tests out normal!