57/421 recto cab impulse

[mickrich]

I am re-amping an album and am chasing the new Carcass sound.
Got pretty close using a combination of 57 and 421 on recto cab with 6505.
While I had it set up I decided to grab an impulse.
This is a mono impulse with the 2 mics at equal level with maximum phase coherence.
Mics were placed with pink noise.
57 first then I reversed polarity on the 421 and positioned it for maximum cancellation so when polarity was put back to normal the 2 mics are perfectly in phase.
Sounds really fat and smooth.
Give it a try and post results here.
44 and 48 in the zip.
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2133088/57&421.zip

Here is a quick test on Jeff's KSE DI pack.
tse 808>NC 8505>lecab
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2133088/57&421_Impulse_test.mp3

To compare, here is the actual 808>6505>recto cab>57/421.
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2133088/57&421_Real_Amp.mp3

*********EDIT NEW IR WITH MORE LOW END*********

As requested here is another 6505>recto cab>57/421 IR.
This time it's an API mic pre with no hi pass filter.
I moved the 421 further from the centre of the cone to get more lows and thud.
Grab ZIP containing 44 and 48 IRs here:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2133088/57C_421E.zip
Here is a test with TSE808 NC8505 and Lecab
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2133088/New 57_421_centre_edge_test.mp3

On hearing this I agree that the original was lacking a bit of low, especially for the Carcass sound I was aiming for.
A bit of research told me Colin Richardson puts 57 near centre and 421 near edge of a different cone so this IR should be closer to the goal.

 

[sjcortese]

Sounds really good! Thank you for the share, I'm looking forward to trying

~scott

 

[Red Phoenix]

Did you make the IR through the 6505 poweramp? How did you set Resonance and Prescence? I would like to substract the poweramp

 

[mickrich]

FX RTN on 6505
res 7 pres 8

 

[schust]

thanks for sharing man! i'll definitely check this out. Btw, I was trying to use your 48k pulses from the IR PACK last night and couldn't get them to load. I downloaded them a few times to make sure it wasn't that. Anybody else ever mention this? It was the one with the Marshall 1960 V30s, Orange PPC412 and Recto OS.

 

[mickrich]

thanks for sharing man! i'll definitely check this out. Btw, I was trying to use your 48k pulses from the IR PACK last night and couldn't get them to load. I downloaded them a few times to make sure it wasn't that. Anybody else ever mention this? It was the one with the Marshall 1960 V30s, Orange PPC412 and Recto OS.

I honestly have never used the 48k versions.
I work at 44.1 and converted them to 48 in Bias Peak.

Check if this new one works at 48 and if it doesn't I will have a look and see what the problem is.

 

[Red Phoenix]

I find the IR a bit mid focused. I have not heard the new carcass but when fiddling around with heartwork riffs it kinda lacks low end or bottom fatness in my ears. But the highs are great, very smooth..not fizzy at all.
You should do more IRs with the Mesa/57/421 combination. A bfmv-poison or Trivium-inwaves inspired one would be awesome also. =D

 

[mickrich]

The IR is flat, straight from the amp so some post processing will be needed, same as on a recorded amp.
On the "real" amp with this setup I am cutting a bit of 300 in a mix I am working on and it sounds amazing.
BFMV is Colin Richardson too so it's probably a similar setup to the Carcass setup.
CR normally uses 57 and 421 on different cones as far as I know and that's what this impulse is.
I didn't set out to make an impulse today but just grabbed it for future use while it was set up and sounding good.
Thanks for the comments.
Let me know how you get on after a bit of EQ.

EDIT
Forgot to mention the Focusrite ISA 828 pre used hat hi pass engaged.
75Hz, 18dB/Octave so be careful with any further HPF.

 

[schust]

I honestly have never used the 48k versions.
I work at 44.1 and converted them to 48 in Bias Peak.

Check if this new one works at 48 and if it doesn't I will have a look and see what the problem is.

new one works ok at 48k.

 

[Red Phoenix]

With Post EQ it's better but i have to increase the lows way more then usual. Thats not bad, i'm only a bit surprised why it seems to have less bass while using a md421. It's kinda bass monster normally.
I wouldn't use any further HPF with this
Yes i know, the setup would be the same. I only thought of a slightly mic position adjustment to change the tonal character a bit.
I wonder if Colin has both mics always in-phase or if he uses the cancelation specifically...i couldn't get good results when the mics aren't in-phase but i also couldn't get same tonality with in-phase mics.


The 48k from the first IR pack also don't work for me. But i don't mind..44 does

 

[Trevoire520]

Sounds great man, love the 421/57 combo!

 

[miguelrx10d]

im seriously in love with this impulse, only wish it had a bit more low end in that 60 to 80Hz area to play with. Thanks a lot man

 

[mickrich]

Seems to be few people think it's lacking low end.
I will make another one without hi pass and maybe the mics right on the grill for proximity effect.
Should have time in the next few days.

 

[Red Phoenix]

Over the weekend i played around with that IR and the more i use it the more i love it =D Its quite different to the ones i use normally so my ears needed to get familar with it.
Without Hi-Pass would be nice. I rather cut frequencies than adding them... Because of "Carcass"-sound i thought you already placed the mics right at the grill..when not, what was then the distance from the grill?

 

[mickrich]

Over the weekend i played around with that IR and the more i use it the more i love it =D Its quite different to the ones i use normally so my ears needed to get familar with it.
Without Hi-Pass would be nice. I rather cut frequencies than adding them... Because of "Carcass"-sound i thought you already placed the mics right at the grill..when not, what was then the distance from the grill?

Can't remember exactly. Maybe 2" or so.
I think the HPF made more a difference than mic distance.
I will make 2 different impulses.
One with maximum phase coherence and one phasing the mids out a little bit.
Looks like I might have time tomorrow.

 

[Sloan]

Once again, thanks for sharing!

 

[mickrich]

See Edit in original post for new IR with fatter low end.
Looking forward to hearing how this works for everyone.

 

[Red Phoenix]

I will try it out tomorrow
Where did you find the info about Colins mic placement? I often searched on the web for it but never find anything.

 

[mickrich]

http://www.ultimatemetal.com/forum/andy-sneap/207761-carcass-heartwork-recording-process.html

It says 2 57s were used at centre and edge of 2 cones for Heartwork.
I have read that these days he uses 57 and 421 on different cones so probably similar positions.
It certainly sounds closer to the Carcass sound with these positions.

 

[Red Phoenix]

Nice read. I didn't know that 2x SM57 where involved instead of 57+421.

The new IR is another extreme...quite dark and bassy =D But mixed with the first one it sounds very nice. Of course it depends on what your playing and what tone your looking for I have tons of IRs. Most of them are sounding kinda plastic. But yours have this real character. I don't know how to say. They are sounding nearly like i want them to sound...i just need to get the low-hi balance right

edit:
here is a carcass jam with your IRs..ignore the harmonics