6505 Real + Sim comparison - the real thing must sound better!!

[Hole]

First at all I'd like to say hello, as this is my first post. Seems to be a great place

I've done a comparison between a 'real tone' and a simulated tone, mainly for strengthening my opinion that amp simulations suck. But now I'm a bit disappointed... because the simulation doesn't suck...

I assume I'm not the first one to do such a comparison, but I'd like to hear your opinions and suggestions for improving the 'real tone'!

Of course the tones sound different - first, the simulation is not an exact copy of the real gear and second, yes, you hear that it's a simulation. It sounds a bit synthetic and the real 6505 sounds more rough. But I wouldn't say the POD sounds bad - it just sounds different.

Is that all? I think the real thing must sound better, there must be a bigger difference in quality!!
So if you can, please give me some advice how to improve the real sound. This is what I've used (Fireface 800 preamp for both):

Real thing:
Boost - Maxon OD 808
Amp - Peavey 6505
Cab - Marshall 1960 AV
Mic - Shure SM57

POD XT:
Boost - Tubescreamer
Amp - MS Criminal (5150)
Cab - Brit V30
Mic - SM57

This is the link: http://www.soundclick.com/hole

Thank you very much in advance!

Cheers
Hole


Edit: You can hear that the tones could be even more similar if I had moved the mic a bit more to the cone. Or maybe also if I had chosen "SM57 off-axis" on the POD instead of "on-axis"...

 

[Carlsman]

Hello! Nice first post. The POD actually sounds very similiar to the real 6505, I thought it wouldn't sound so similiar.
Mind telling us something about the POD tone? Preset? Any EQ?
I think the real 6505 tone you've got sounds good!

 

[jauernis]

Wow I think your pod tone sounds great!! Can u share more details?? Pod patch? What pickups, maxon before the pod, what di, and what post processing?

 

[TheDude]

Ok, so I'm a bit drunk, and the soundclick quality is only 128kbit/sec, but they are too close to be true. Here's my drunken advice:

Change the mic and position. If your happy with the tone, sell the amp and buy a SS poweramp and use the pod+cab when you rehearse and the POD direct when you record.

 

[Mortal_Dezire]

Holy shit. That's all I have. I may now have to stop bashing Line 6....

 

[MegaGoo]

wow cool. sounds the exact same. it sounds like you probably spent a while playing with the pod and the actual amp and mic placement to get as similar a ton as possible because the slightest movement in mic placements yields a much different sound

 

[DrHans]

I think the 6505tone sounds best but the 5150 tone sound great aswell. With a little tweaking ( mabey less gain,a bit less highs and a small bassboost ) the pods 5150 coulld problaby sound even closer to 6505.

 

[TomAwesome]

That's pretty close! I'm sure there would be a more noticeable difference if it was better than 128kbps quality, but that's surprisingly similar. You should try putting the Maxon in front of the POD and replacing the cab sim with an impulse to see how much closer that will get you.

 

[Hole]

Thanks guys.

Wow I think your pod tone sounds great!! Can u share more details?? Pod patch? What pickups, maxon before the pod, what di, and what post processing?

Pickups are stocks pickups of an Epiphone Flying V, DI box was Palmer PAN02, reamping box RMP, post processing just a bit of multiband comp at 150Hz and a bandpass from 60Hz to 12k.

I think the 6505tone sounds best but the 5150 tone sound great aswell. With a little tweaking ( mabey less gain,a bit less highs and a small bassboost ) the pods 5150 coulld problaby sound even closer to 6505.

That's pretty close! I'm sure there would be a more noticeable difference if it was better than 128kbps quality, but that's surprisingly similar. You should try putting the Maxon in front of the POD and replacing the cab sim with an impulse to see how much closer that will get you.

Actually I was hoping to get some tips how I could improve the real thing...
Because - it's better than the POD, but for the money I think it should be even more better... Any suggestions?

Is there anything with the 'real sound' that you have to criticize, so that I maybe can improve it?

Cheers

 

[hoehlentroll]

I think the 6505 tone is thinner than it could be and that's why you managed to let them sound that close!
Maybe it's because of the marshall cab. mesa and engl is twice as thick, as is the tone.

 

[Hole]

Maybe it's because of the marshall cab. mesa and engl is twice as thick, as is the tone.

But isn't the choise between Engl, Marshall and Mesa rather a matter of taste than quality? I mean, at least the Marshall V30 cab was used on countless great records, including Sneaps..

 

[hoehlentroll]

of course EVERYTHING is a matter of taste. but a mesa does sound fatter than a marshall box. I would say this is a matter of fact. allthough it also depends on how you mic it, have the amp dialed in etc. etc.
what I wanted to say is: you have managed to come close to the original amp because you dialed the amp in, in a way the pod is capable to simulate. and maybe there are other sounds with an original amp, that the pod isn't able to come close to.

 

[Let it burn...]

The pod seems to sound more processed imo, lol

 

[Hole]

allthough it also depends on how you mic it, have the amp dialed in etc. etc.
what I wanted to say is: you have managed to come close to the original amp because you dialed the amp in, in a way the pod is capable to simulate.

Yeah, I think you're right. Do you have any suggestions how I could improve the sound without getting a Mesa cab?
I could maybe try to dial in more bass and a bit more mids. Furthermore I should maybe use a second mic, if I don't do quad tracking..

 

[hoehlentroll]

if you want to stick with the real cab (instead of impulses) maybe try a plugin like waves max bass. you could also mix an edge setting with an "between edge and on axis" setting. but I actually don't have any experiences with micing. I'm into this impulse thing. maybe you could add another track with impulses for the low end.
edit: and I don't think the sound isn't bad at all! it sounds really good!

 

[TomAwesome]

You could probably even use an EQ in the FX loop (or maybe even in your DAW) to dial in a bit more meat.

 

[kev]

I always find the amp much better to play with, for instance in terms of feedback and the like the pod is not so good.

 

[hoehlentroll]

You could probably even use an EQ in the FX loop (or maybe even in your DAW) to dial in a bit more meat.

that would also help and a multiband compressor could be useful if it gets too boomy.

 

[::XeS::]

which are the pod's settings?

 

[Hole]

if you want to stick with the real cab (instead of impulses) maybe try a plugin like waves max bass. you could also mix an edge setting with an "between edge and on axis" setting. but I actually don't have any experiences with micing. I'm into this impulse thing. maybe you could add another track with impulses for the low end.
edit: and I don't think the sound isn't bad at all! it sounds really good!

Thanks Maybe I should try this impulse thing with a Mesa response, just to see if I can get better results with it.

I always find the amp much better to play with, for instance in terms of feedback and the like the pod is not so good.

Yeah, thats for sure. Playing a real amp is definitely more fun!

which are the pod's settings?

Er.. didn't save the patch, but the settings were much different from the real amp's setting. Bass was max while 2 o clock on the 6505, mids about 11 o clock while 9 o clock on the 6505 - don't remember the rest. The POD tubescreamer had the same settings than the real Maxon: overdrive 9, tone 10, balance 12 o clock. Oh and I used the POD's internal EQ to match the 6505 tone. I had to lower the mids and raise the high mids, basically.