7 wonders
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Fox Mulder
The Truth Is Out There
Erkan
mr-walker.bandcamp
Jind
Grrrr!!! (I'm a bear)
- Mar 7, 2009
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Speed is a talent when it is combined with the ability to do it rock solid to time and for long periods of time and/or when combined with stops and starts and all the other stuff that makes a great drummer.
Hell, I can beat a stick real fast for a 20 second burst, but ask me to keep doing it to a 225bpm click on time, every hit and I will fail on a massive level. I can also tremolo pick a guitar (I don't play drums at all, but I do play guitar) pretty fast, but in no way do I consider myself a speed demon on guitar.
Speed is a talent, one like all other musical abilities requires loads and loads of practice and quite frankly natural ability to make truly an art. Tell me you have not listened to sucky ass drummers in dime a dozen bands trying to play fast and failing on a grand scale - if it was not for Beat Detective or other studio magic they would sound like shit. That is not the case with Mike - he is a truly talented drummer who has stated publicly that he really enjoys pushing the envelope of speed simply because it's fun and challenging for him.
JMarz
New Metal Member
Dexter_prog
New Metal Member
JMarz
New Metal Member
_Brutalism_
Member
- May 14, 2008
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I disagree that speed and precision is a talent. I think that with time, anybody who dedicates himself to it can play single strokes with consistency for as fast one wants to. The only variable here is the time it would take one to get to that speed, but this is dependent on grasping the technique.
It is only when speed is incorporated to music (and music being the decisive factor) that talent can be recognised. When speed is used correctly in music, then yes, one may identify it as talent, because that person is able to input something inherently unmusical and make something of it which appeals to the ears, besides the orgasmic sounds of single strokes (For example Hans Grossman, the drummer of Necrophagist in Epitaph).
Now, I'm sure Mangini can do this just like any other beastly drummer, but judging that first video, I felt that it lacked anything besides the speed he so much treasures used very 1 dimensionally.
Dude, a grudge on people who play fast is the LAST thing I have. I find myself in two death metal bands at the moment, one more extreme than the other, and I have to play fast. And no arguing there, it does feel great. But I hate it when speed is prioritized over other aspects of drumming. Constant speed shows a lack of dynamics and is generally uninteresting in my opinion. I believe in moderation. When speed is blended with groove and feel, then I can say WOW. I know I bring this guy up a lot, but he's my biggest inspiration at the moment. Listen to Sean Reinert in "Human" by Death; insane speeds are balanced with insane polyrythms, groove and even delicate playing.
Don't get me wrong, I'm sure Mangini can throw down a kick-ass groove just like any other amazing drummer, but as a performer, I felt that he emphasized too much on speed. This is what I gathered from the first video.
However, take the now famous Tony Royster Junior. Watch the video where he was just 12 years old; I have a feeling you all saw this once in your lives due to its popularity, but I want to show how this guy managed to include all aspects of drumming in 1 solo and made it sound so awesome.
I felt that Mangini placed too much stress on how amazing playing fast is, without balancing the performance with the inclusion of other elements of drumming.
Also, thanks for uploading the second vid, it was definitely better in my books, however still I felt that the limelight was placed too much on the gravity blast/rim-rolls and very fast single hand rolls. The beats themselves weren't that inspiring to say the least.
When videos were posted of very fast shredding guitarists which lacked melody,they were bashed, and rightly so. I feel that despite being fast, the performances in the solos I've seen were too focused on speed and precision rather than making it sound interesting in the process.
Hey, maybe his playing doesn't ring nicely in my ears and that's why I feel like this, but I respect your opinion and the last thing I have is a grudge or some inner desire to mock this guy.
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STINNETT
Bad / Nationwide
Erkan
mr-walker.bandcamp
Well, if you say you don't have a grudge against people who are super fast, I'll have to take your word for it. Whenever I hear someone bash someone else because they're "too fast", I get infuriated because of the cowardness of the one who is bashing and who is too afraid to admit they're jealous to hell and back. If you aren't, then you're an alright guy, I'll have a beer with you. But as I said... I just hate it when people say someone sucks only to make themselves feel less miserable. 
Other than that, we don't have to agree with each other about wether speed is a talent or not. I'll respect your opinion because you brought up some pretty good arguments about why speed is not a talent and so on, and I can totally buy that. I, however, feel that speed IS a talent just like any other attribute that can be considered a talent in musicianship. It seems that you are implying that groove/feel/soul cannot be developed if one dedicates oneself to it, while speed can. I don't quite understand this.
Other than that, we don't have to agree with each other about wether speed is a talent or not. I'll respect your opinion because you brought up some pretty good arguments about why speed is not a talent and so on, and I can totally buy that. I, however, feel that speed IS a talent just like any other attribute that can be considered a talent in musicianship. It seems that you are implying that groove/feel/soul cannot be developed if one dedicates oneself to it, while speed can. I don't quite understand this.
GeertSamuel
Member
I can't believe some of you guys are badmouthing or questening the quality of Mike..
I think any of the guys here would want a drummer like this in their band..
I think any of the guys here would want a drummer like this in their band..
_Brutalism_
Member
- May 14, 2008
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I never said he sucks, I said that I thought that he was pretentious due to the fact that be advertised speed to be the main element of his performance which I felt was the detrimental factor of the presentation of his drumming. I didn't find the performance and the way he talked about it impressive, that is all.
let me clarify what I mean. Can we agree that improving speed is training your limbs to perform a function at a higher tempo, therefore toning your muscles and your joints to adapt to rapid motion and repetition?
I feel that our bodies, being incredible machines, are capable of improving (unless one has an unfortunate condition which prevents it) the way we move our limbs, through practice. However, I believe that toning the body is something which more or less, anyone could do.
However, the feel of drumming is something only a certain number could do CORRECTLY. The mindset has to be there, and with practice the talent can be honed and polished. Speed is something which will come with time, isn't it something all drum tutors tell us? That it's the technique and getting the right idea of drumming which should be cared for first?
I interpret this to mean that speed is a trait which can be cultivated through natural function, whilst the soul/feel/vibe/groove or whatever anyone wants to call it, is something which is innate but must be further chiseled in order to be fruitful.
How many of us know people who pick up an instrument and are able to pull of some things in a fast manner, yet could never quite grasp the concept of the instrument?
I had band members like this, who could improve on speed and what not, but really had no idea how to make something musical of it.
As I said earlier, I didn't say Mike just has speed, fuck no. I just said that the performance was stale TO ME, due to the fact that speed was the only attraction presented.
I hope I clarified what I meant, and I hope there are no hard feelings man, I don't mean to bash your idol, I was just taken aback by how he presented it all and I apologise if I did so rudely.
let me clarify what I mean. Can we agree that improving speed is training your limbs to perform a function at a higher tempo, therefore toning your muscles and your joints to adapt to rapid motion and repetition?
I feel that our bodies, being incredible machines, are capable of improving (unless one has an unfortunate condition which prevents it) the way we move our limbs, through practice. However, I believe that toning the body is something which more or less, anyone could do.
However, the feel of drumming is something only a certain number could do CORRECTLY. The mindset has to be there, and with practice the talent can be honed and polished. Speed is something which will come with time, isn't it something all drum tutors tell us? That it's the technique and getting the right idea of drumming which should be cared for first?
I interpret this to mean that speed is a trait which can be cultivated through natural function, whilst the soul/feel/vibe/groove or whatever anyone wants to call it, is something which is innate but must be further chiseled in order to be fruitful.
How many of us know people who pick up an instrument and are able to pull of some things in a fast manner, yet could never quite grasp the concept of the instrument?
I had band members like this, who could improve on speed and what not, but really had no idea how to make something musical of it.
As I said earlier, I didn't say Mike just has speed, fuck no. I just said that the performance was stale TO ME, due to the fact that speed was the only attraction presented.
I hope I clarified what I meant, and I hope there are no hard feelings man, I don't mean to bash your idol, I was just taken aback by how he presented it all and I apologise if I did so rudely.
GeertSamuel
Member
The great thing about Mangini is that he can play with incredible speed AND feel. He is one of the most versatile drummers out there right now. He did come across as a bit pretentious in that video, but hell, if I was that good then I would probably be a bit pretentious too.
Like Erkan, I hate it when people bash on great metal drummers like Derek Roddy, Kollias, and Mangini. These guys practice hours and hours a day to to perfect their art, and definitely deserve a lot of credit for it.
And hey, if we're going to collectively bash a drummer, let's bash Joey Jordison
Like Erkan, I hate it when people bash on great metal drummers like Derek Roddy, Kollias, and Mangini. These guys practice hours and hours a day to to perfect their art, and definitely deserve a lot of credit for it.
And hey, if we're going to collectively bash a drummer, let's bash Joey Jordison
Jaymz
Stymphalian Productions
The great thing about Mangini is that he can play with incredible speed AND feel. He is one of the most versatile drummers out there right now. He did come across as a bit pretentious in that video, but hell, if I was that good then I would probably be a bit pretentious too.
Like Erkan, I hate it when people bash on great metal drummers like Derek Roddy, Kollias, and Mangini. These guys practice hours and hours a day to to perfect their art, and definitely deserve a lot of credit for it.
And hey, if we're going to collectively bash a drummer, let's bash Joey Jordison
+1
guitarguru777
Member
The long and short of it is most drummers are jealous of his speed. Which is why lots of people talk shit about him. As far as drummers go hes one of the best on the planet, and its not just cause of his speed. The man is DEADLY accurate on a kit. Watch the "time warp video again and watch how his sticks are ALWAYS hitting the center of the head. Its always perfect.
As an engineer who records metal drummers I WOULD give my left nut to have him come in and let me sample his playing. The guys is 1st class all the way.
I dare one of you to find me a metal drummer that has all the qualities Mike has.
Class
Speed
Accuracy
Stamina
Technique
Sure there are guys like the dude from meshuggah that are good, play fast and kick ass. But there are qualities they still lack. The dude from meshuggah is AMAZING but he lacks technique. As far as I can tell his hits are inconsistent. Ever listen to them live? Ever see them live? The drums aren't nearly as accurate.
Watch any of the Steve Vai live stuff with Mangini and you will see a professional drummer who is amazing at his craft. Listen to the Annihilator album in question All for You, That IS NOT a drum machine. Its Mangini kicking serious ass. Even though the song writing is lacking, and Jeff Waters should hang it up (I am a huge Annihilator fan, and even I am saying this), the drumming on that album is the epitome of amazing metal drumming.
As an engineer who records metal drummers I WOULD give my left nut to have him come in and let me sample his playing. The guys is 1st class all the way.
I dare one of you to find me a metal drummer that has all the qualities Mike has.
Class
Speed
Accuracy
Stamina
Technique
Sure there are guys like the dude from meshuggah that are good, play fast and kick ass. But there are qualities they still lack. The dude from meshuggah is AMAZING but he lacks technique. As far as I can tell his hits are inconsistent. Ever listen to them live? Ever see them live? The drums aren't nearly as accurate.
Watch any of the Steve Vai live stuff with Mangini and you will see a professional drummer who is amazing at his craft. Listen to the Annihilator album in question All for You, That IS NOT a drum machine. Its Mangini kicking serious ass. Even though the song writing is lacking, and Jeff Waters should hang it up (I am a huge Annihilator fan, and even I am saying this), the drumming on that album is the epitome of amazing metal drumming.
SentencedToBurn
Dubbs
WHA???? thomas hakke is amazing. he lacks technique?? he is very consistent and definitely has his own style, more so then the drummer originally described in this thread.
I was originally not bashing this mans (mike) skill as a drummer. The video originally posted did not show off anything spectacular. He could be a really good drummer, but i was judging off the one video. Also, the interview rubbed me the wrong way. He was talkin like a hippie AND I HATE HIPPIES!
but when it comes down to it, i dont care for individual talents, cause if your in a shitty band, then who cares.
Meshuggah > steve vai
hahah
but seriously...
_Brutalism_
Member
- May 14, 2008
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I have seen Roddy and Kollias solos, and with all respect they own the shit out of the Mangini solos I have seen till now, which is not much I dare say.
Speed isn't what I'm bitching about, its the idea that SPEED is all that is needed to kick ass. THAT is a fallacy. That is my argument. Period.
I normally stay out of petty stupid threads like this...but i definitely feel the line has been crossed.
Mangini is an absolute MASTER of drums. I suggest you do alot more research not only on this guys playing, but his published works. His concepts of rhythm and polyrhythmics are unparalleled.
Sure, the guy is a fruit loop but even Roddy, Kollias, and all those master blasters would tell you they cant hold a candle to that guy. Hes a freak. Period.
Totally cool to not dig someones style or drum solo, thats not what im bitching about. But you really gotta do just a wee bit more research on him before you make a judgement on such a prolific drummer.
Also, that show was built around his speed and how the body executes the drumming as well as how the drum and his body react to it. I think you're totally missing the point on why the made the show in the first place. Its discussing the science of the human body and drumming. Not the science of the best drum solo...
Just my two cents.
