8 ins for drums, best choices in bad situation

[raisedfist]

So gonna do some ghetto drums on Saturday and this is what I got;

Motu ultralite (8ins only......this is the problem)

Amazing space, 40 by 80 foot theatre auditorium

Good stock of mics, sm57s, sm7, 451s, 421, d112, & Red5 Valve LDC

As its for a Punk/Hardcore band and I'm pretty much gonna totally replace the kick and blend samples on the snare of the actual drum I already made.

The kit doesn't need to sound that natural as this style is sample city and its in the vein of comeback kid, rise against, strike anywhere.
It sucks I couldn't get anymore inputs sorted but it is what it is and so I was thinking.

1. Kick - D112
2. Snr Top - sm57
3. Rack - 421
4. Floor - 421
5. Hats - Sm7
6. OH L - 451
7. OH R - 451
8. Room - Red5 LDC

Is this a good choice or am I being a fucktard?

I hate having no options

 

[raisedfist]

Sorry for the double post.....Dolphin browser!

 

[Trevoire520]

I would be tempted to drop the hat mic and mic the underside of the snare, but if you're planning to just sample replace anyway then I guess it would be a waste of an input.

 

[Fox Mulder]

I'd drop the room mic and use room samples instead.

 

[BLUElightCory]

Drop the hat and mic the bottom snare or a stereo room mic setup.

ORRRR

Drop the hat and one of the toms and do a bottom snare AND stereo room mic (you did say it's an awesome space yeah?) instead. Sum the toms to a single channel (you'll need a Y cable) and sample replace them afterwards.

 

[Erik Monsonis]

drop the hat, and use it as stereo room. You're not using any real snare tracks are u?

 

[Lon]

if the drumkit sounds pristine in the room, ditch the hat mic and try to capture even more of the room, if the room and the kit sucks, just place everything in a way that will give the most accurate information for the sample replacer

 

[raisedfist]

Stereo room is happening now! Thanks guys, I will try the hat vs snr bottom on the day.

I've worked in this theatre for 4 years so I should really see what it sounds like as they don't mine me using the space.

Thanks for the tips people

 

[AllanD]

Personally I would mic the ride, I always had issues with the ride being too queit when I was using only overheads.

 

[DanLights]

Personally I would mic the ride, I always had issues with the ride being too queit when I was using only overheads.

Not to mention that not mic'ing the ride is one of Master Sneap's most common beginner mistakes, as said by the man himself

 

[Damage, Inc.]

Why is only 8 ins a problem? Does the drummer really suck? If he can balance his kit and play somewhat in time, it should sound fine. Personally, I would hate losing the hat mic, but if you've got a great room, go for the stereo room mics.

 

[ahjteam]

1. Kick - D112

am I being a fucktard?

Yes. Awful mic, unless you are doing like... not rock/metal. Put the SM7 there instead and you might be actually even use the miced kick sound a bit and do stereo room mics instead of the hihat. If you don't believe me, try the D112 first and then compare to the SM7 (it can easily handle high SPL, so don't worry about breaking it: http://www.tweakheadz.com/reviews/review_of_the_shure_sm7b.htm

The SM7B can handle the loudest sounds your studio is likely to produce. Shure says it can take over 180db SPL and equates that to the sound of a space shuttle launch at close range. (140 db SPL is the accepted threshold of pain for the human ear), so the SM7B theoretically can go where your ear can't, like one inch from the bell of a trumpet playing a high note (155db SPL)

Not to mention that not mic'ing the ride is one of Master Sneap's most common beginner mistakes, as said by the man himself

You are now quoting him out of context, he was talking about situations where the sessions have like 12 room micing channels but no close micing of ride/china, not about a situation where they are not limited to 8 inputs, because then it's just about making decisions.

 

[B36arin]

If the room is great you should definitely get stereo room mics. The D112 is not my favourite mic by a stretch, but I imagine that the kick is going to be 100% replaced anyway so it doesn't really matter which mic you put on it.

 

[tempe]

Depends on the style of hardcore but, you could go for like a 3 room mic set-up and go for something really Jay Maas-esque.

Something like

Kick
Snare
OHL
Centre Overhead - between your 2 overheads above the rack toms
OHR
RoomL - about 1 - 2m from the kit around the height of the rack toms
RoomR
Mono FAR Room.

To do this, its pretty damn crucial that your drummer can play, and you spend a while fiddling with phase. You're not going to be able to sample replace the toms, so make sure he hits hard! This sort of technique will get you pretty close to the Drum sound on the last two defeater records.

 

[Uros]

I have done it before. Kick, snare top, snare bottom, rack tom, floor, OH L, OH R, ride. I have always ended up with usable hi hat from OH tracks, to say the least. So, if you must make a choice between the hat and the ride, ditch the hat mic.

If you were to go for a more natural sound, of course that I'd recommend to ditch some of mentioned mics in favour of room mics, but since you are not recording that kind of thing, this is my suggestion.

 

[MatrixClaw]

Personally I would mic the ride, I always had issues with the ride being too queit when I was using only overheads.

Kinda depends on the ride. If the kit is setup with a ride that's actually appropriate for their playing style and genre, you shouldn't have much trouble at all getting the ride to come through. My Meinl Byzance Traditional 20" Ride is probably the loudest thing on my kit on its bell, thing slices through everything else like mad (in a good way), the Zildjian A Custom, Sabian HH and Vintage Zildjian A I had before sounded great, but once you started playing other cymbals, they couldn't cut through at all, unless you barely touched anything else.



Personally, I'd lose the hi-hat mic and put it on the snare bottom, but since you said you'll be replacing it anyway, definitely go stereo room, since you said the space is awesome.

Same rule applies to hi-hat cymbals as I said above. Unless the drummer has a huge mix of cymbals that really don't work well together, I don't see why you wouldn't be able to get an acceptable sound out of the OHs for the hi-hats.

 

[Charles J]

it's SIMPLE. ditch the hats, stereo mic the room. that will come in handy MUCH MORE in the mix than a fucking hat mic and mono room.

try it. if it sounds like shit, mess with your room mic placement until it's sounding FRESH along with the room mics.

people make this shit WAY to fucking confusing! 75% of engineering is troubleshooting, something I learned just VERY recently....

if you're able to adapt and make decisions on the spot that WORK, you're on the right path =D

fuck, mic the kick with a 57 if you want! Harvey makes it work and if you KNOW you're going to replace it, fuck it!

 

[The-Zeronaut]

record the "drums" and then the cymbals...
1st kick,snare,toms
then cymbals,hihat , ride and china mic...

if the drummer is half decent there should be no problem at all

 

[Uros]

^^he could might as well program the drums (not really, but you get the idea). I had this project a couple of months ago, the files were handed to me for mixing. Drums were recorded the very way you suggest (shells+cymbals). Even though it was a brutal tech death metal band in question (hence, separation was desired), I was really less than pleased with the results - no glue. Even 'reamping' didn't help. So, needles to say, I don't advocate the suggested way at all.

 

[raisedfist]

Thanks for all the input. Yeah a d112 does suck balls but I'm 100% replacing the kik anyhow.
Spent a bit of time trying out different mic placements and ended up with a mono room mic around 15 foot infront of the kit, sounded the best there.
Hi hats were a set of 14" stage hats so I used a music stand with foam on it ala Kurt Ballou style to keep a little bit of hats out of the overheads and ended up micing the ride and Z bell with the sm7 as the ride was a thin AAX and was pretty quiet on the overheads. Spend a bit of time sampling the snare a week or so ago with the drummer so all in all I was pretty happy with the session as the room sounded cool and the drummer was a bit of a one take wonder so the setup took longer than the recording.
Good times