raybrochill
Member
haha imagine how bad would the horror movie scene would go, though...
"THE MONSTER'S COMING... BLOW!!! BLOWWW!!!! 0.11!!! NOOOOO!!!!!"
A killer shoots 5 people in a shopping mall at Espoo, Finland
- Thread starter ahjteam
- Start date
haha imagine how bad would the horror movie scene would go, though...
"THE MONSTER'S COMING... BLOW!!! BLOWWW!!!! 0.11!!! NOOOOO!!!!!"
This - guns make lethal power so much more accessible to untrained people than any other weapon
Machinated
Member
i see your point with the defending thing - but never in my life, my sister's lives, my parents lives, or even my grandparents lives (save for the 2nd world war) have any of us needed to scare anyone off or otherwise with a gun.
granted not everyone lives as cushioned lives as us, and i also agree that not everyone with a gun is mental.
having increased gun laws wont make shootings disappear, but ill bet you that the amount of gun related incidents would drop. the way i see it is the more laws there are allowing guns to be purchased (by those who are elligible to buy them), more guns will end up in the hands of those that shouldnt have them.
granted not everyone lives as cushioned lives as us, and i also agree that not everyone with a gun is mental.
having increased gun laws wont make shootings disappear, but ill bet you that the amount of gun related incidents would drop. the way i see it is the more laws there are allowing guns to be purchased (by those who are elligible to buy them), more guns will end up in the hands of those that shouldnt have them.
J.DavisNJ
\m/
Yeah, I suppose you and I will disagree about this one...it's cool no worries.
But how bout this...
I'm willing to guess that the majority of these attacks, the shooter is usually in close proximity to his victims. Now, let's say said attacker has a .45 or .44 magnum, high capacity mags, OR just a collection of regular mags in his pocket.
If he is close enough to his victims, I really doubt that the Bushmaster is going to do a LOT more damage than the .44 magnum. Both are going to kill said target. Both are semi-auto. Or, what if said guy has a 00 buckshot shotgun? I've never heard many random attacks happening with full-autos either. The majority that own these are either criminals or rich ass dudes in the midwest who are literally making an investment for the future. Those things accrue value like a mofo.
Also, the majority of these attacks that I read about happen with said handguns. It's quite hard, unless you wear a trenchcoat 24/7 lol, to conceal a lot of assault weapons or their semi-auto variants.
My point is, while I can see the argument for the gun type or variant making a difference in this case, it doesn't really hold much water for me. Hell, the Virginia Tech shooter had a .22 pistol (have you guys seen a .22 round?? It's a glorified cap gun, but can still do damage!), and a 9mm handgun. Neither of these rounds is even known for having stopping power, but that nutcase was shooting people execution style from what I remember. This was also the deadliest school shooting in history IIRC.
-Joe
J.DavisNJ
\m/
Oh and Marcus, when you come to NJ we are going shooting...I think you will be in love after you fire my Saiga 7.62x39. :-D
-Joe
-Joe
Oh dude, make no mistake, I've played way too many video games throughout my life to not fucking love guns I just try to temper my adolescent virility with some rational maturity and sympathy, but don't doubt for a moment I would absolutely adore to give some real weapons a try 
(only ever shot bolt-action .22's at Boy Scout camp, but I got damn good by the end of those 2 weeks 
)
And of course, in CQC/B, a pistol is as dangerous if not more so as an assault rifle, but an assault rifle would be much more deadly in the hands of someone shooting up civilians in a large, (semi-)open area, and the reason I would support pistols still being legal is for the self-defense thing for law-abiding citizens
I just try to temper my adolescent virility with some rational maturity and sympathy, but don't doubt for a moment I would absolutely adore to give some real weapons a try (only ever shot bolt-action .22's at Boy Scout camp, but I got damn good by the end of those 2 weeks )And of course, in CQC/B, a pistol is as dangerous if not more so as an assault rifle, but an assault rifle would be much more deadly in the hands of someone shooting up civilians in a large, (semi-)open area, and the reason I would support pistols still being legal is for the self-defense thing for law-abiding citizens
Torniojaws
They call me Juha
Finland has always been a highly racist/intolerant country - but quietly so, and for the most part not to physical levels. No one advertises their hatred towards foreigners in public, but when they drink or talk among friends/family, then their true feelings are revealed. This is especially true for most Finns that are 40 years old or older, and is still very prevalent among the younger people too, who have not gotten to meet any foreign people in person - due to lack of student exchanges at school, or foreign colleagues at work, I presume. Ironically, this is the reason why I personally don't like Finnish people (even being one). I get to meet and befriend around 100 foreign people every year because our school has a very high level of student exchanges done all over the world, mostly from China, Russia, many African countries, Czech Republc, Slovakia, Poland, Portugal, Spain, Austria, Germany and Vietnam, and time and time again I prefer the company of the foreign people to my Finnish classmates or schoolmates.
Machinated
Member
yeah - its definitely a quiet thing, and undoubtedly due to the lack of immigration from places outside of europe.
i think a lot of (older) finns would have a bit of a shock walking around places here like london/bradford/leicester if they are expecting to see similar ethnic demographics
i think a lot of (older) finns would have a bit of a shock walking around places here like london/bradford/leicester if they are expecting to see similar ethnic demographics
J.DavisNJ
\m/
Neither have I, and I hope I never have to. With that said, I wouldn't hesitate to use mine in the appropriate situation.
I live in a pretty safe suburb, but also live 5 minutes from some pretty ghetto areas.
In regard to your last paragraph, this is somewhat true...it's just a logical though that more guns out there = more guns are able to make it into the hands of criminals or whackjobs who will use them to kill. That's a pretty easy statement to generalize. I suppose the more cars are on the street = likelihood rises that there will be more fatal accidents or vehicular homicides.
You'd be surprised how many people use their vehicles as weapons in our state, lol.
-Joe
J.DavisNJ
\m/
Oh dude, make no mistake, I've played way too many video games throughout my life to not fucking love guns
And of course, in CQC/B, a pistol is as dangerous if not more so as an assault rifle, but an assault rifle would be much more deadly in the hands of someone shooting up civilians in a large, (semi-)open area, and the reason I would support pistols still being legal is for the self-defense thing for law-abiding citizens
Oh snap...well wait til you fire the Saiga and the Mauser. World of difference, hahaha.
I just got my H&K P2000 as well...sweet gun:
Yeah, I can see the last argument making sense, but god damn...they are fun weapons to shoot!
-Joe
Machinated
Member
granted that analogy is true, its something that you could drag to any level. people die from all sorts of things, no matter how absurd. people get electrocuted a lot, but we arent going to get rid of that. the issue here is the association of guns existing killing/injuring people (not saying thats everyone intentions with it, just saying thats the association it has) and the ease of being able to wipe out considerably large amounts of people in a short space of time even if its someone just going nuts and acting immeaditely on it.
my point is in the case of rampages like this, they'd have a tough time doing it without a gun.
Machinated
Member
J.DavisNJ
\m/
Agreed dude. No argument there. I'm just for responsible gun laws, not laws that "sound" good to legislators.
-Joe
raybrochill
Member
no you wouldn't, not if you had to do it even once. my sister got a DUI several months ago, and she one on her car for a time.... she fucking hated it, it was a bastard, and she's thrilled that it's finally come off.
my new concealed carry piece...
it's a Ruger SP-101 .357 Magnum. it has a 5-round cylinder, 2.25" barrel, and a spur-less hammer so as not to catch your clothing as you draw it from concealment.
got the laser-grips for it on order, shown here on the spurred hammer model of the same gun i have...
it's a Ruger SP-101 .357 Magnum. it has a 5-round cylinder, 2.25" barrel, and a spur-less hammer so as not to catch your clothing as you draw it from concealment.
got the laser-grips for it on order, shown here on the spurred hammer model of the same gun i have...
for the record... i've had a concealed carry permit off and on since 1990, and i've never had to use a weapon, or even pull it out from concealment, in that entire time. i don't really expect to ever have to. (i did once, in my own front garden, show someone that i did have a gun in my waistband in order to deter them from following my girlfriend onto my property).
i tell you though, having one on me has led me to avoid situations that might lead to arguments or even altercations, the latter of which might have otherwise ended with me in jail for physical assault, or with me in the hospital from being physically assaulted. the knowledge that i am carrying a firearm predisposes me, as it would and should to with any normal person, to walk away from any scenario that could lead to trouble. still, in all that time, even that scenario has only played out a couple times... because like any other rational adult human being, i tend to not get into such situations in the first place.
i tell you though, having one on me has led me to avoid situations that might lead to arguments or even altercations, the latter of which might have otherwise ended with me in jail for physical assault, or with me in the hospital from being physically assaulted. the knowledge that i am carrying a firearm predisposes me, as it would and should to with any normal person, to walk away from any scenario that could lead to trouble. still, in all that time, even that scenario has only played out a couple times... because like any other rational adult human being, i tend to not get into such situations in the first place.
Ironbird666
Member
- Jul 11, 2004
- 229
- 0
- 16
While I agree to an extent, you have to realize that LOTS of gun crimes are committed by criminals that DO NOT get reported by the media. I'm not saying the media covers them up, but small town crime just doesn't get reported on the national news unless it's a large event. You also very rarely see a report of a responsible gun owner stopping a crime by utilizing a gun, but it happens. While I think you are right in the sense that a legal, non-criminal gun owner may "snap" and go on a shooting spree, guns are used very often by criminals on an hourly basis. You can't punish everyone just because people go over the edge everyonce and a while. I'm a cop dude, lot's of crimes are committed daily involving gun, either by using them as a weapon or breaking into a house or business to steal them. Trying to neuter the entire public from owning firearms just to prevent an occassional shooting spree will only result in the bad guys getting bolder and bolder. Just my take on it, no disrespect intended.
