A request for some odd harmony.....

[Bryant]

I am rather surprised that I was able to find such a similarity, but the Redemption song...."IV Transcendence" from TFoT, and the Vanden Plas song "On My Way to Jerusalem" share one thing huge in common. They both contain lyrics that are being sang by the lead vocalist and other vocalists that are singing different lyrics. If you want to know what I am talking about.... it is about the 5:20 mark on the Redemption song. I think the climax starts around 10:45 on the VP song, but the different vocals start just a little later.
If any of you know any other bands/songs that contain this, I would love to hear it. This is an auditory overload. How the two harmonize in different points of the songs are amazing. I can listen to those parts of those songs indefinitely. That is ART !!!


Bryant

 

[DTJeff]

Without double-checking to be 100% sure what you mean, I'm guessing you're referring to what I would call a "vocal round". In that case, see: Savatage.


Starts at 6:15


Starts at 3:39

They have several more, see: The Morphine Child, The Hourglass, Not What You See, Dead Winter Dead. Zak Stevens also carried this technique with him to his band Circle II Circle (see: Burden of Truth, The Middle of Nowhere, Every Last Thing, F.O.S)

Also, one of my favorite examples ever:

Starts at 6:32

 

[Bryant]

I am a HUGE Savatage fan, but of the early stuff with Oliva on vox. I don't dislike the Zakk stuff..... don't get me wrong, but it is a different band to me. I am actually impressed with the Edguy song. I "like" Edguy live, but I guess they have more of a "majestic" quailty about them on this song than I really ever imagined. That is a really good song.


Bryant

 

[Bryant]

Bumping my own thread because this is really big for me. I would love to hear more of this type of harmony.


Bryant

 

[Dustin]

If I'm not mistaken, this is called "counter-point" vocalizing.

If you really like this stuff, you might want to check out some Gentle Giant (the true godfathers, masters and infuence of this) or possibly early Spock's Beard.

I'm at work, or I'd post some youtube examples... maybe later if I find some time.

 

[Harvester]

Around the 10:00 mark.

 

[Harvester]

Amazing song with Oliva, Zak, and more...

5:00 minute mark is what you are after.

 

[cslebn]

This has also been true in several Pain of Salvation songs. Daniel Often does a spoken/sung line over a separate vocal chorus.

Idolglossia around 2:10, 3:30, 4:10


The Perfect Element around 5:07 and starting 6:50


Plains of Dawn - basically the whole song

Also REM's It's the end of the world during the later choruses:


TSO - Mephistopheles' Return around 2:14

hehe Savatage and related do it the best

There are lots of examples of this (I just can't think of more right this second)

 

[edgeofthorns]

O'Neill era Savatage are the masters at counterpoint vocals in my humble opinion. Bryant, do yourself a favor, sit down and take a serious listen to Dead Winter Dead and Wake of Magellan! Piss on the whole, it isn't the same band hum drum argument. Talent is talent dude!

~Brian~

 

[TheLongshot]

Outside of metal: Spock's Beard



And the band that influenced Spock's Beard: Gentle Giant

 

[FatesFan]

Probably not exactly what you are talking about but you should really listen to a Spocks Beard song called Gibberish and a Neal Morse song called Author of Confusion as they both have killer vocal rounds in them. I think it is impossible to find a good quality youtube video of either song. ( all I found was low quality live stuff that do not do the songs justice )

Edit:

4:00 minute mark

 

[Dustin]

Outside of metal: Spock's Beard

And the band that influenced Spock's Beard: Gentle Giant

aaahhh.... thank you for posting those examples and covering my ass!

 

[Bryant]

If I'm not mistaken, this is called "counter-point" vocalizing.

Yes that is right. Thank you so much ...... I think I actually made a similar post about it when the second Redemption disc hit me, but totally forgot about it until the mighty Vanden Plas put it in their repertoire. Somehow that part of my brain drive must have been reformated,

Amazing song with Oliva, Zak, and more...

5:00 minute mark is what you are after.

Killer !! I appreciate it dude. I don't think I know you, but you have a high post count so you must know a little something. The Harvester nic seems a bit familiar though.




Ha ha ha I do know the REM from the rafio. but am not big on POS. Will check out the vids though.

O'Neill era Savatage are the masters at counterpoint vocals in my humble opinion. Bryant, do yourself a favor, sit down and take a serious listen to Dead Winter Dead and Wake of Magellan! Piss on the whole, it isn't the same band hum drum argument. Talent is talent dude!

~Brian~

Well...... it is not about talent dude. There are many extremely talented bands I don't care for. I really love the old Savatage, but I just am not particularly crazy about the vox of Zak.

Outside of metal: Spock's Beard
[

Ha ha ha love Gentle Giant's drummer. He makes the coolest faces. Good stuff.

Edit: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e0uFb75wpkE
4:00 minute mark

Yes great choice. I know that one. I like Morse. One hell-of-a-musician.

aaahhh.... thank you for posting those examples and covering my ass!

No way Dustin !!! Now you have to dig deep to find more. I expect ten examples not already listed out of you !!

Just joking bud !!


Thanks guys !! As I said at the start, I am a little embarrassed because I think I asked the same thing several years ago, but I had to make sure ya'll were paying attention... >~

Bryant

 

[edgeofthorns]

Well...... it is not about talent dude. There are many extremely talented bands I don't care for. I really love the old Savatage, but I just am not particularly crazy about the vox of Zak.

Oh well...I wasn't really referring to Zak at all, but I thought you were more interested in the counterpoint vocals. I've always thought dentist offices should pipe in Spock's Beard and Neal Morse, so I guess you and I aren't on the same page then.

~Brian~

 

[Angrafan]

This is not metal at all, but it's a great example of this... ahah I showed it to my brother the other day and his comments were "This is how Savatage would sound if they went Folk" hahah... It is a beautiful song... It starts around the 2:30 mark...

 

[cslebn]

Polka!

 

[xenith]

Polka!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mcrcx1abm2M

(Fixed that for you)

 

[Bryant]

(Fixed that for you)

Ha ha ha.... that is different. I think I will stick with the VP and Redemption. ^___^


Bryant

 

[nvandyk]

I am rather surprised that I was able to find such a similarity, but the Redemption song...."IV Transcendence" from TFoT, and the Vanden Plas song "On My Way to Jerusalem" share one thing huge in common. They both contain lyrics that are being sang by the lead vocalist and other vocalists that are singing different lyrics. If you want to know what I am talking about.... it is about the 5:20 mark on the Redemption song. I think the climax starts around 10:45 on the VP song, but the different vocals start just a little later.
If any of you know any other bands/songs that contain this, I would love to hear it. This is an auditory overload. How the two harmonize in different points of the songs are amazing. I can listen to those parts of those songs indefinitely. That is ART !!!


Bryant

First, thanks for the compliment! I remember having to ask both Ray and our producer to take a leap of faith we me on that part, but it came together great.

I will say that Dead Winter Dead by Savatage was a distinct influence (perhaps obviously) on this particular section, as was side III of Extreme's Side III Sides.

 

[FatesFan]

First, thanks for the compliment! I remember having to ask both Ray and our producer to take a leap of faith we me on that part, but it came together great.

I will say that Dead Winter Dead by Savatage was a distinct influence (perhaps obviously) on this particular section, as was side III of Extreme's Side III Sides.

III sides is a brilliant album and the III side is nothing short of epic. Having said that, your music is brilliantly written and masterfully executed. From the music to the lyrics to the individual performances, I am always getting something new out of every spin. Redemption is easily in my top 4 bands of all time! Keep it up my man.