A video for Brother Vern..... (prog stuff, not that good, but great singer)

[Bryant]

Was browsing Youtube and found that a live set of Withem from the last PPUSA (whatever number that one was) has been put on there. This isn't truly live, mind you, it is professionally produced like a live album. I made a thread about them after the show. I recall you saying you hate these guys..... I am not a fan either and don't own any of there stuff. A little too "typical prog" for me..... but, I was praising the singer. He was far and away the best singer at the festival (other than Urban who was just in the audience.) I thought you might want to hear him live. I would love to hear this guy sing something a little more traditional. He is pretty bad-ass !! Outstanding pitch discipline.

Bryant

 

[Wyvern]

Hate maybe a strong word, I just don't like them. Boring stuff like many modern prog bands lately (many of them at PPUSA sadly), no hook, no flavor, no punch.

I love modern prog, but good one like: The Flower Kings, Transatlantic, Karmakanic, Time's Forgotten, Presto Ballet, The Tangent, Scale The Summit, Shadow Gallery, Dream Theater, Derek Sherinian, Helreidh, Adramelch, Manigance (more power than prog), Jordan Rudess, La Maschera di Cera, LMR, Mastermind, Semantic Saturation, Six Elements, Tetrafusion.

 

[Bryant]

Hate maybe a strong word, I just don't like them. Boring stuff like many modern prog bands lately (many of them at PPUSA sadly), no hook, no flavor, no punch.

I love modern prog, but good one like: The Flower Kings, Transatlantic, Karmakanic, Time's Forgotten, Presto Ballet, The Tangent, Scale The Summit, Shadow Gallery, Dream Theater, Derek Sherinian, Helreidh, Adramelch, Manigance (more power than prog), Jordan Rudess, La Maschera di Cera, LMR, Mastermind, Semantic Saturation, Six Elements, Tetrafusion.

Ha ha ha..... well, I wasn't picking on you Bro Vern. I simply wanted you and others to hear this guy sing live. I feel the same way about this band. I liked the one song they had a video for, so I bought the disc. I ended up liking two songs on the disc and found the others really meandering and lacking anything that kept my attention. Not awful stuff mind you, but basically useful as background music, not something that can hold my attention.
However, every once in a while I hear a musician who has honed his/her craft so well that I am wowed by him/her, even though the songwriting might not do it for me. This singer is one of those, in a live setting. He was awesome at what he did. I can only imagine how much I would like him if the songs were simply geared more to my liking.
Maybe it is simply a musician thing. I have a VERY keen ear to things like...... well simply staying in key and not being flat or sharp. His discipline in that area is better than 95% of the singers out there that are on stage anywhere...... even compared to some of my favorite singers. I love Nils, of Pagan's Mind. PM played that night. He sang way better than Nils as far as staying in key.
Anyway.... trying to clear that up, bro. It isn't about how good or bad Withem is. I think you and I probably share a similar opinion on them. What I am saying is Withem has a singer that freaking rips live. I want them to write some cool stuff so I can hear this great singer sing some cool stuff.

Bryant

 

[Bryant]

Btw..... the PPUSA performance was glossed over so much with studio production, it doesn't sound like it was very real. Here is a cell phone type video of them live. This guy still brings it like at the PP show.

 

[Wyvern]

Ha ha ha..... well, I wasn't picking on you Bro Vern.

I know bro. I didn't felt offended at all. I was explaining that for my standards that band has zero appealing.

As a musician your appreciation of his skills live are not the same I have. I don't find the guy impressive, as I'm not musical trained my (tunnel) vision is a different one

 

[Bryant]

I know bro. I didn't felt offended at all. I was explaining that for my standards that band has zero appealing.

As a musician your appreciation of his skills live are not the same I have. I don't find the guy impressive, as I'm not musical trained my (tunnel) vision is a different one

No problem my brother. I wasn't trying to push them on you. If I recall correctly. you aren't a big fan of Ray alder either. I think the singer has some qualities of the early Ray Alder stuff.
As far as a "trained" ear....... I suppose I can tell a little better when someone is off key or out of time, but it is actually more of a nightmare than anything else. 95% of the bands I see stink because the singer gets off key too much, a guitar goes out of tune for too long, a drummer "cheats" and plays a simpler passage to save energy etc. etc. etc.
Every once in a while though, a band or band member surprises me and performs above and beyond what I expect from them. I have heard it from people I absolutely did not expect it from, so that is one of the beauties I suppose of having the "trained ear." Most people wouldn't think of Lynyrd Skynyrd as far as having an elite drummer, but former Damned Yankees drummer, Michael Cartellone simply put on a clinic of how drummers should sound when I saw them in the early 2000s. Mark Slaughter is another one. He gives me a freaking headache on disc. I saw him live because I wanted to see the original Quiet Riot reunion (late 90's.) SLaughter blew QR off the stage. I wouldn't listen to their discs mind you, but they were awesome live.
Not saying some of my faves haven't performed well. Accept and Vanden Plas are two of the most professional bands I have ever seen. Dio was ALWAYS great. Heart was ALWAYS great. Mick Mars (more a fan of him than the band after their early stuff) was ALWAYS great.

Bryant

 

[Wyvern]

No problem my brother. I wasn't trying to push them on you. If I recall correctly. you aren't a big fan of Ray alder either. I think the singer has some qualities of the early Ray Alder stuff.

I don't like Fates Warning, but I do like (still I don't know why) Redemption with Alder. Still not sure if I would have endure them live.

As far as a "trained" ear....... I suppose I can tell a little better when someone is off key or out of time, but it is actually more of a nightmare than anything else. 95% of the bands I see stink because the singer gets off key too much, a guitar goes out of tune for too long, a drummer "cheats" and plays a simpler passage to save energy etc. etc. etc.

Is the musician factor.

I have several musicians friends who tell me more or less what you are saying, or even wackos like PM74 who are into production more than anything else. And I have heard complaints and kudos both in studio and live for bands that I don't give a a damn or I love.

For me is the music, of course a good sound, a good production, a good performance does affect the perception about an artist but is not that important to me as the music itself.

 

[Bryant]

I don't like Fates Warning, but I do like (still I don't know why) Redemption with Alder. Still not sure if I would have endure them live.

Different singer. Ray can't sing the high stuff anymore, so he changed his style.



Is the musician factor.

I have several musicians friends who tell me more or less what you are saying, or even wackos like PM74 who are into production more than anything else. And I have heard complaints and kudos both in studio and live for bands that I don't give a a damn or I love.

For me is the music, of course a good sound, a good production, a good performance does affect the perception about an artist but is not that important to me as the music itself.

I am much like PM74 then, I am afraid. When I was about 12 years old, my favorite bands were Boston and AC/DC. Back in Black was produced by Mutt Lange and Boston was produced by Tom Schultz (Boston's guitar player.) The sound of AC/DC's BiB and both (at the time) Boston releases were simply incredible in my ears. They still are today. While I am adamant that songwriting is the most important thing about music, production comes in second. Guitar tone within the production is third.

Bryant

 

[the_lionheart]

Hi guys

Just wanted to chime in. Regarding the mix and our performance at PP, im very proud of the guys. As i mixed this myself I can tell you, not a single drum was edited, nor was the bass or keys. Vocals are tuned at some places and the guitars are all re recorded. Reason being, the DI on stage didnt work. Got ground problems that made my amp sound like a drill was going thru my pickups. I F%$#& up to much to keep the original tracks and could not re-record only those spots i messed up. We had some dropouts on mics so some spots had to be replaced naturaly. Thats the third tom and the main voc mic (minor dropouts thankfully

At least we got the dvd shoot out there.

Keep an eye out for our next album, hopefully it will pleasure more then the first

All the best
Oyvind

 

[Bryant]

Hi guys

Just wanted to chime in. Regarding the mix and our performance at PP, im very proud of the guys. As i mixed this myself I can tell you, not a single drum was edited, nor was the bass or keys. Vocals are tuned at some places and the guitars are all re recorded. Reason being, the DI on stage didnt work. Got ground problems that made my amp sound like a drill was going thru my pickups. I F%$#& up to much to keep the original tracks and could not re-record only those spots i messed up. We had some dropouts on mics so some spots had to be replaced naturaly. Thats the third tom and the main voc mic (minor dropouts thankfully

At least we got the dvd shoot out there.

Keep an eye out for our next album, hopefully it will pleasure more then the first

All the best
Oyvind

You know me Oyvind. I was at both of your PPUSA appearances. You did make some mistakes on this show, but it wasn't that bad dude. You did fine. When you were with Illusion Suite on your first USA gig, it was much worse. You were so nervous, but Oyvind...... you were still very professional. You have done a good job dude.
As far as pleasing me more than your first release...... it is not my job to tell you what music you should play. You are an artist and you should play what you feel in your heart. Having said that, Vanden Plas is my favorite band in the world. Stephan Lill, the guitarist is awesome because he isn't scared to be oldschool and write riffs that are based on power chords and "common" keys. '

Bryant