Ok I am normally a nice guy but !!!
- Thread starter Bryant
- Start date
Hell Mike
fuck melodic black metal
Metallica were called Power Metal in their very early days, but I guess you old timers knew that already...
not that i can say much about the actual content of the thread,except that i'm in with the european camp on power metal(except fot iced earth-thanks to the swine!)
its nice to see a wholehearted debate about the music though,with lots of imput from everyone!
its nice to see a wholehearted debate about the music though,with lots of imput from everyone!
I've seen them in the punk section of the recordstore in 1978Fangface said:Weren't Motörhead called Thrash at one time?
and now "hard rock"?
Hawk said:I've seen them in the punk section of the recordstore in 1978
you remember '78 for the music hawk,some of us just remember it for the toys we got at christmas-action man for me!!(gi joe to all you boys over the water)
I am in the US camp. Clearly, but that does not mean that Euro power metal is crap, or that I am the only one on this planet that knows what good music is.baldyboy said:
Musical taste is personal. I could care less what other people like. I know what I like and thats good enough for me. I don't need to convince anybody or win converts. I am not a priest. Like what you want and don't let some fucker tell you that you are wrong in liking some band or style of music. Have fun!
IOfTheStorm
Gogol Bordello
Now , lets see some factsWyvern said:
Nearly ALL 90s European power metal bands copied Helloween. European power metal didnt even exist before Helloween (i would not consider Running Wild to be power metal, just traditional heavy metal). Few European power metal bands tried to escape the "I must play like Helloween" syndrome (Heaven's Gate, Attack, Blind Guardian, some others too) and created something really interesting. Since then most European "power" metal bands have NO power, they breed a smurf legacy, and all the BALLS and STRENGTH that power metal oughts to have are gone.
U.S.A. power metal bands created something totally new and fresh when they came out . Just look at bands like : early Queensryche,Savatage, Sanctuary, Crimson Glory, Helstar, Liege Lord, Fates Warning, Mystic Force,Vicious Rumors, Metal Church, Lethal, Heir Apparent, Jag Panzer etc, and albums like "Into The Mirror Black", "The Warning","Ample Destruction" the first Metal Church album, "Awaken The Guardian" and "No Exit", "Gracefull Inheritance", "Digital Dictator" and so many others. They had a fresh and much more pure and unique sound, HUGE inspiration , and most of all, they did not need another band to lead the way (like Helloween did to European power metal bands), they were leaders of their own. Also they did not use that BORING and used 545645 times TOTALLY SAME rythm section that most european power metal bands use.
I like some european power metal bands, but especially nowdays all the power metal essence in our continent is gone. Bands like Nightwish and Rhapsody are considered power metal, while they are a complete NOTHING (i.m.o.). Even the GOOD european power metal bands in Europe now, are playing music that is influenced from u.s.a bands (I am talking about Shadowkeep and Brainstorm).
Fangface
Child of the Damned
Even if I could have disagreed with some points in his previous posts, I'm in (almost) full agreement with IOTS here.
I'm in the "US camp" with Hawk too.
Not to say that european power metal bands are crap and uninspired, that would be unfair, many of them have succeeded in doing their own thing : Heaven's Gate, Eldritch, Scanner (with Harridon Lee), Blind Guardian, Angel Dust, Brainstorm, Symphorce, Manticora, Secrecy, even Stratovarius with their mid 90s albums!
But usually US power metal bands are/were more creative and original, and I honestly think it's an objective point.
Sanctuary, Jag Panzer, Chastain, Savatage, Helstar, Metal Church, Vicious Rumors, Nasty Savage, Cacophony, and many more (see lists above) all had/have their own sound and style.
I wouldn't say the same for Lethal though, even if I love them they were quite close to Queensryche.
I'm not talking about quality here, as it does not mean anything (like Burkhard wrote before), just about originality.
To take an example I love what Hammerfall play, still I would never say that they're creative. Basically they write good songs to my ears... and I don't have a problem with them being non original!
Thus the real problem to me is that the US power metal scene is not as creative as it used to be in my opinion, and somehow I believe that the european power metal scene is now developing faster, even if the countless Helloween and Strato clones are still overshadowing the more original bands.
So maybe in a few years I'll change my mind in favor of the european scene, who knows
In the end... long live (Power) Metal, wherever it comes from
I'm in the "US camp" with Hawk too.
Not to say that european power metal bands are crap and uninspired, that would be unfair, many of them have succeeded in doing their own thing : Heaven's Gate, Eldritch, Scanner (with Harridon Lee), Blind Guardian, Angel Dust, Brainstorm, Symphorce, Manticora, Secrecy, even Stratovarius with their mid 90s albums!
But usually US power metal bands are/were more creative and original, and I honestly think it's an objective point.
Sanctuary, Jag Panzer, Chastain, Savatage, Helstar, Metal Church, Vicious Rumors, Nasty Savage, Cacophony, and many more (see lists above) all had/have their own sound and style.
I wouldn't say the same for Lethal though, even if I love them they were quite close to Queensryche.
I'm not talking about quality here, as it does not mean anything (like Burkhard wrote before), just about originality.
To take an example I love what Hammerfall play, still I would never say that they're creative. Basically they write good songs to my ears... and I don't have a problem with them being non original!
Thus the real problem to me is that the US power metal scene is not as creative as it used to be in my opinion, and somehow I believe that the european power metal scene is now developing faster, even if the countless Helloween and Strato clones are still overshadowing the more original bands.
So maybe in a few years I'll change my mind in favor of the european scene, who knows
In the end... long live (Power) Metal, wherever it comes from
- Nov 24, 2002
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Fuck I made a long post against IOTS one and I cannot find it. The fucking computer in campus betrayed me (must me an American powered computer )
In any case I'm too tired to rewrote the whole diatribe, so let's leave it at:
1) European power metal is superior in my ears to the American counterpart.
2) Nobody will change my mind. Like the Borg say discussion is futile .
3) In all the forums I always ended like this with the topic at hand. I'm too old so I let you youngsters keep the discussion.
Good night, signing out from Planet E.
The Wyvern
)In any case I'm too tired to rewrote the whole diatribe, so let's leave it at:
1) European power metal is superior in my ears to the American counterpart.
2) Nobody will change my mind. Like the Borg say discussion is futile
.3) In all the forums I always ended like this with the topic at hand. I'm too old so I let you youngsters keep the discussion.
Good night, signing out from Planet E.
The Wyvern
DrillSergeant said:
I agree 100%. Angel Dust isn't "heavy" compared to many bands if you were to ask a thrash or death fan, but the right song by them makes me want to break shit. The same thing goes for Metal Church and Accept. I could even say the same thing about BiB - FTAtR era AC/DC. There's not much speed there and no "chunka chunka" guitars or double bass drums, but if it were any heavier their heads would have exploded. It's intense music. Of course they blew a hole in the top of the seattle Kingdom. That's pretty fucking heavy.
Bryant
JonnyD said:
I can tell you that I have seen many many live shows and Bas is probably in my top 20 live vocalists as is Mark Slaughter and I never even owned a release of Slaughter's (though I bought a live one after the concert.) Nothing against Mark, but on disc I always thought he sounded a little too high and girly, but he has power with that range as well. He was flat out incredible live.
Bryant
Good posts of both IOfTheStorm and Fangface. Very well put my French friend. Although I am not sure I agree with your last conclusion "I believe that the European power metal scene is now developing faster,". I don't know if the Euro scene is *developing*. They are surely gaining popularity among the masses, but that's not the same as developing.
I would rather say that the US scene is in danger of drying up. But I could be wrong there too. Last year have focused more on progressive releases. So I might have missed a few metal releases from the US.
I also agree that the debate about quality is undo able, we can however conclude that the sound of Jag Panzer, Destiny's End et al... is more fresh and original than the xth happy metal Helloween clone from Europe.
That does not have to mean that the Euro band is shit or have less value to those who like that style. It's just a question of what you as a listener are looking for. I disliked the happy sounding choruses from the start. Si I was very dismayed to find this type of songwriting gained popularity fast at the end of the 80s. I always liked the brute force and speed of the American bands. Funny though that the American style is being defended by a Greek, a Frenchman and a Dutchman, those countries are not the biggest friends of the US at the moment
Please no politics guys
I would rather say that the US scene is in danger of drying up. But I could be wrong there too. Last year have focused more on progressive releases. So I might have missed a few metal releases from the US.
I also agree that the debate about quality is undo able, we can however conclude that the sound of Jag Panzer, Destiny's End et al... is more fresh and original than the xth happy metal Helloween clone from Europe.
That does not have to mean that the Euro band is shit or have less value to those who like that style. It's just a question of what you as a listener are looking for. I disliked the happy sounding choruses from the start. Si I was very dismayed to find this type of songwriting gained popularity fast at the end of the 80s. I always liked the brute force and speed of the American bands. Funny though that the American style is being defended by a Greek, a Frenchman and a Dutchman, those countries are not the biggest friends of the US at the moment
Please no politics guys
Fuckin' A' !!!! I created a good discussion here. "Power metal" is different for different listeners. open your minds to metal no matter the genre. Some bands might surprise you.
Bryant
Bryant
Fangface
Child of the Damned
Yeah, I coudn't find the right word to explain my idea, that's my shitty english once again ahahHawk said:
What I mean is that the massive Helloween-cloning begins to fade now (I may be wrong though), and you can see a few more creative bands coming up, even if they're not well known yet.My point exactly.
hehe yup, that's the proof music can gather people much more than politicsFunny though that the American style is being defended by a Greek, a Frenchman and a Dutchman, those countries are not the biggest friends of the US at the moment
Please no politics guys
USMC0341
Dead Cold Day
Bryant said:
I went to see "Phantom of the Opera" a while back, and Sebastian Bach was playing the lead role, and he just SMOKED that musical...his voice is awesome. After the show, when they all take bows, he was treating it like the end of a metal show, which was cool.
Has anyone ever heard Skid Row's cover of "Children of the Damned"? The bassist cheeses Steve Harris' awesome bass riffs...but Bach fucking RULES that song...I was very impressed...
Ok, I see. point takenFangface said:Yeah, I coudn't find the right word to explain my idea, that's my shitty english once again ahah
My point exactly.
Hell almost *any* other human actvity can unite people more than politics.Fangface said:hehe yup, that's the proof music can gather people much more than politics
Politics breeds division between people. I consider it to be an parasitical and destructive activity.
JonnyD
Chef Metal
Bryant said:
Absolutely I dont listen to Metal by Genre if its good I listen to it Doesnt matter if its Death/Doom/Black/Thrash/Power/Speed its All Heavy Fucking Metal to me
