About to pull the trigger on SSL X Desk & Duende

[Tesseract]

I've almost finished converting my garage into a little dedicated mixing room and I'm thinking of upgrading my setup a little to go with it. I'm just using a Fireface 800 at the moment so the AD/DA won't be amazing...but thats something I can address at a later date.
I've got the Waves plugins but want to venture into the DSP stuff.

Just wondered what people's experience was with the X Desk and Duende here?

In the long term I can upgrade to an SSL setup like the Alpha Link + Mixpander with some X Rack stuff....eventually! So thats one reason why I chose the X Desk for future upgrade.

Going to be living off beans for the rest of my life!

 

[006]

I was under the impression the RME FireFace stuff had great converters?

 

[Kazrog]

I was under the impression the RME FireFace stuff had great converters?

+1. It doesn't get better than the FireFace as far as converters go, at any price (at least not from any shootout I've listened to.) You can spend a lot more and get converters that don't sound as good IMO.

 

[Lasse Lammert]

+1. It doesn't get better than the FireFace as far as converters go, at any price (at least not from any shootout I've listened to.) You can spend a lot more and get converters that don't sound as good IMO.

well, not quite true IMO, but still the RME are really good. (I like my Apogee AD16 better than my RME ADI-8...still, the ADI8 are kickass).


I don't know about the SSL X Desk but I'd strongly advice you to shell out the money for a protools HD system before you buy the x-desk

 

[Tesseract]

well, not quite true IMO, but still the RME are really good. (I like my Apogee AD16 better than my RME ADI-8...still, the ADI8 are kickass).


I don't know about the SSL X Desk but I'd strongly advice you to shell out the money for a protools HD system before you buy the x-desk

I have 2k....not 10

The fireface converters are ok for the money. You can't push them very far i find....but i meant compared to Prism or Apogee.

I remember micing up a guitar cab with two mics going Mic > Preamps > Line ins on the RME ....then compared it to Mic > Preamps > old 16bit OTARI Radar > SPDIF in on RME.

It was a while a ago but i remember there was a big difference in percieved level/headroom. Added a nice colour to it also. Shame it was 16bit.

 

[JeffTD]

I have 2k....not 10

HD will not run you 2k by any stretch of the imagination. If you have a good PC and don't need to rely on the Accel cards, you can get an HD1 setup and then run Apogee or Lynx converters with an HD card for probably as much as this SSL setup is going to cost you.

 

[Lasse Lammert]

I have 2k....not 10

Yeah, I know...a used HD1 core card is about 1k

 

[Tesseract]

HD will not run you 2k by any stretch of the imagination. If you have a good PC and don't need to rely on the Accel cards, you can get an HD1 setup and then run Apogee or Lynx converters with an HD card for probably as much as this SSL setup is going to cost you.

Sweet never knew that! Only ever seen the HD cards go for like 9K ...nice one. Hmmmmm.

Still curious on peoples thoughts of the x desk/duende, if any has used them Or the Dangerous LT

 

[Ermz]

Ultimately you don't need any of that shite. A number of Duende users were hard done because it's taken SSL so long to iron out the bugs. Even now they're dragging their heels with the V3 update. The idea seems nice until you notice how screwed their userbase have been. Their gimmick with V3 is that 'the dongle now shares resources with the CPU!!' Fuck me, how novel, how amazingly insightful of them. Buy a DSP-based dongle so their damn plug-ins can use up your CPU resources regardless. Magnificent!

Digi's HD cannot be anything except on its way out. There is some serious internal restructuring happening in that company, and if anyone with a shred of sanity takes the reigns they will push for new product lines. Invest your money in quality native solutions - not expensive dongles. I understand GAS as much as anybody, but it's wise to consider the cost effectiveness of the purchases.

If you have the Waves there really isn't much to be gained going elsewhere. Surely those alone would've cost you several grand? (I'm assuming you're referring to the Gold/Platinum/Mercury bundle). There's no need to fork out more for the same thing except with a higher latency and a good chance to go tits-up on you.

If you want something new to use the GAS on, look at the recent Waves CLA Classic Compressor series. If you have the Mercury Bundle WUPed then you get it for free. Want some world class linear-phase equalization? Check out the Algorithmix EQs. Want some unreal minimum phase equalization and compression? Check out the Flux plug-ins. Those need an iLok - not a few grand worth of cards eating up your PCI slots.

PS. I would LOVE to see someone go onto a mastering forum and claim that a Fireface has as good, if not better, conversion than Weiss, Prism or Lavry converters, then attempt to hang around through the ensuing chaos.

 

[GarethSE]

PS. I would LOVE to see someone go onto a mastering forum and claim that a Fireface has as good, if not better, conversion than Weiss, Prism or Lavry converters, then attempt to hang around through the ensuing chaos.

can it be gearslutz trolling time now plz?

OMG GUTSHOTS PLEASE!

 

[Ben Johnson]

PS. I would LOVE to see someone go onto a mastering forum and claim that a Fireface has as good, if not better, conversion than Weiss, Prism or Lavry converters, then attempt to hang around through the ensuing chaos.

 

[Kazrog]

PS. I would LOVE to see someone go onto a mastering forum and claim that a Fireface has as good, if not better, conversion than Weiss, Prism or Lavry converters, then attempt to hang around through the ensuing chaos.

You're talking about a class of equipment and a price range that most pro studios don't even bother with. Most studios I've been in use Apogee, and I personally feel that Apogee and RME are about the same - if anything I slightly prefer the RME but I could easily be fooled in a blind test I'm sure.

I've never encountered Weiss, Prism, or Lavry converters, even in major pro studios that the labels have used for hit albums for decades.

 

[Kazrog]

PS. I would LOVE to see someone go onto a mastering forum and claim that a Fireface has as good, if not better, conversion than Weiss, Prism or Lavry converters, then attempt to hang around through the ensuing chaos.

You're talking about a class of equipment and a price range that most pro studios don't even bother with. Most studios I've been in use Apogee, and I personally feel that Apogee and RME are about the same - if anything I slightly prefer the RME but I could easily be fooled in a blind test I'm sure.

I've never encountered Weiss, Prism, or Lavry converters, even in major pro studios that the labels have used for hit albums for decades. I'm sure there must be a difference in quality (there better be, for the price) but I literally don't know a single person who uses these brands, and I know a lot of pros.

 

[Ben Johnson]

I pulled the trigger on a FF800 after hearing the blind shootout between it and the Rosetta.

But yeah, I'd sort of have to agree that a Lavry or Prism isn't THAT much better considering the price.

 

[Gomez]

I pulled the trigger on a FF800 after hearing the blind shootout between it and the Rosetta.

But yeah, I'd sort of have to agree that a Lavry or Prism isn't THAT much better considering the price.

I got a Lavry blue and you're right, the difference isn't massive next to a decent converter. What I like about it is that probably makes the difference is the fact that it doesn't distort easily, so you can run it pretty hot without it sounding bad. I also like the A and D saturation modes for some stuff.

But I agree, I think that kind of money can be better spent elsewhere... I only need 2 channels and I'm mastering 90% of the time, so I could justify the expense.

 

[Gomez]

Ultimately you don't need any of that shite. A number of Duende users were hard done because it's taken SSL so long to iron out the bugs. Even now they're dragging their heels with the V3 update. The idea seems nice until you notice how screwed their userbase have been. Their gimmick with V3 is that 'the dongle now shares resources with the CPU!!' Fuck me, how novel, how amazingly insightful of them. Buy a DSP-based dongle so their damn plug-ins can use up your CPU resources regardless. Magnificent!

Digi's HD cannot be anything except on its way out. There is some serious internal restructuring happening in that company, and if anyone with a shred of sanity takes the reigns they will push for new product lines. Invest your money in quality native solutions - not expensive dongles. I understand GAS as much as anybody, but it's wise to consider the cost effectiveness of the purchases.

If you have the Waves there really isn't much to be gained going elsewhere. Surely those alone would've cost you several grand? (I'm assuming you're referring to the Gold/Platinum/Mercury bundle). There's no need to fork out more for the same thing except with a higher latency and a good chance to go tits-up on you.

If you want something new to use the GAS on, look at the recent Waves CLA Classic Compressor series. If you have the Mercury Bundle WUPed then you get it for free. Want some world class linear-phase equalization? Check out the Algorithmix EQs. Want some unreal minimum phase equalization and compression? Check out the Flux plug-ins. Those need an iLok - not a few grand worth of cards eating up your PCI slots.

PS. I would LOVE to see someone go onto a mastering forum and claim that a Fireface has as good, if not better, conversion than Weiss, Prism or Lavry converters, then attempt to hang around through the ensuing chaos.

Did you know that there are only like 3 companies in the world that makes AD/DA chips? so yes, I think there's too much hype about the converter thing... although as I said, I really like mine and surely there are some differences in sound due to the design...

RE PTHD: I have been really tempted to grab an HD1 rig... but I can't think of many reasons why I should go out and spend £5000 for plugin delay compensation...

 

[Ermz]

You're talking about a class of equipment and a price range that most pro studios don't even bother with. Most studios I've been in use Apogee, and I personally feel that Apogee and RME are about the same - if anything I slightly prefer the RME but I could easily be fooled in a blind test I'm sure.

I've never encountered Weiss, Prism, or Lavry converters, even in major pro studios that the labels have used for hit albums for decades.

Whether or not a majority of studios do or don't bother with them isn't really the point. FF800 converters are not top class. They may be 'good enough' for most, as you're suggesting, but that doesn't mean they are mastering grade. I'm not particularly snobby about conversion, as I use a Multiface, but I wouldn't pretend it would stand up to a Lavry Gold simply because it's good enough for me.

FWIW though Apogee converters aren't really all that great, so it figures that the FF series are on par. If we're looking at midrange converter offerings, the Lynx Aurora smokes the Rosetta. Though then again many preferred the Behringer ADA800 to the Aurora, so you've really got to wonder what the point of it all is.

Mastering guys are in a totally different headspace to most of us. Where they would spend $10k to get 2 channels of AD/DA with improvements that would not even be noticed on 99% of consumer end systems, we would invest it in something with larger immediate benefits. This is what separates the top class gear from the rest. When you get into that niche area where that final 5% really means everything to you. This is why the FF800 converters really can't be considered top-class. If anything you have to give RME some credit for doing the ADI series, otherwise it'd be a wasted effort.

 

[JeffTD]

I don't give three shits if FF800 converters aren't 'top class' - they're a fraction of the price and sound really damn good. At the end of the day, a change of strings or a different pick will make a bigger difference in your guitar tone than whether you're using FF or Lavry converters.

 

[Kazrog]

When you get into that niche area where that final 5% really means everything to you. This is why the FF800 converters really can't be considered top-class. If anything you have to give RME some credit for doing the ADI series, otherwise it'd be a wasted effort.

I totally agree 100%. Mastering engineers are bat shit crazy. Of course, Bob Katz, who I normally respect massively, also thinks Digital Performer (with its horrible summing) sounds good, when literally any other recording software (even Reaper) kills it at summing.

 

[Gomez]

I don't give three shits if FF800 converters aren't 'top class' - they're a fraction of the price and sound really damn good. At the end of the day, a change of strings or a different pick will make a bigger difference in your guitar tone than whether you're using FF or Lavry converters.

Maybe. I have been tracking guitars through my API's 512c and the Lavrys... there's something about the way they're sitting in the mix that is quite cool... dunno if it's just my mind, but I could post when I finish the album in the next few months.