Achieving a good sim tone

[NicholasDWolfwood]

Hey guys, I'm having a big problem. I'm working on another song for my band and finding a good tone is fucking killing me right now. The guitar tone is especially pissing me off, because I'm just not getting anywhere. Perhaps I just don't have the ear, I don't know.

This is a rough mix, with scratch guitar and bass tracks over the MIDI drums (through SD2.) Snare is replaced with Morgoe's gog, OH has some highs accentuated (so it doesn't get lost during blasts etc) and the kick is the standard SD2 NY kick with the lows cut a bit so it's not so boomy.

Guitars are 4 tracks, 100/80/80/100. Left (both tracks) have TSS->7170->kefir (englv30higherpres-01.wav), right TSS->Wagner Sharp MkII->kefir(englv30higherpres-01.wav). 100L/R are -7dB in the mix while 80/80 are 0dB.

Bass is TSS for a boost -> my Alex Webster-modeled AmpegSVX preset with the mids and the highs slightly boosted in the graphic EQ section.

To me the mix sounds cluttered and things are definitely competing (especially with the 4 tracks) but even when I solo just the guitar track and start over I'm really just not getting anything. The tone is real fizzy and sounds over-gained but even with the drive knob at 4 in 7170 it still comes through fizzy as hell. Maybe I just don't have an ear for good guitar tones.

This is a clip of the track I'm working on right now. Any help would be greatly, greatly appreciated.

 

[Nuno Filipe]

I dont know about you but I find kefir very limited. Try Voxengo Boogex, it´s better and you can do a sort of pre equalization with him. The tone isnt really bad but sounds weird. That drums are not helping too.
If the problems continue upload here your DI tracks and I ill see what I can do.

 

[NicholasDWolfwood]

I think it's just a matter of me not knowing what frequencies to boost/cut at all. I know generally you should be hi-passing around 80-100hz (to reduce the bass and overall clutter in the low-end) and low-passing around 10-12k but my tones still come out fizzy as fuck and I don't really know how to hide it that well - maybe it's a combination of bad EQ, the limitations of using amp sims and impulses, and the actual impulses that I'm using.

I like kefir because it takes up less CPU than Boogex, which with all the other shit I have going in the project - it counts. My CPU is spiking at around 75% across all 4 cores.

If the problem persists after some more people post tips and whatever and after I sit down and try to get a good tone, I'll upload all the DI files when we track the final tracks and see what anyone can do with them.

 

[Zuranthus]

I like kefir because it takes up less CPU than Boogex, which with all the other shit I have going in the project - it counts. My CPU is spiking at around 75% across all 4 cores.

bounce/freeze tracks you aren't currently working on
& don't be afraid to low-pass the guitars lower, there's a point where the tonality of the guitar won't change at all while taken out pure fizz, sweep around for it...i bet you can go to 5k or 6k without loosing the actual sound

 

[eternally_gutted]

could you share that ampeg svx preset?

 

[Tokyurot]

Hi Nicholas, First of all your vol/panning of the gits sounds really weird to me. I'd like to suggest you trying this:

Pan 'TSS->7170' 100% left and right and 'TSS->Wagner Sharp MkII' 80% left and right, so the different sounds you're getting
from the ampsims kinda blends better together. Also adjust the vol of the 80% guitars slightly lower than the 100% 'main guitars'.

I usually end up having a tone with more mids on the 100% guitars, and less mids in the 80% guitars to give abit of bite
and tightness to the central of the sound.

You could also try switching the position between TSS->7170 and TSS->Wagner Sharp MkII guitars, meaning, Wagner could be 100% L/R,
and 7170 80% L/R. BTW, you should also give a go at LePou's SoloC ampsims if you haven't yet

I also think the kick is way too loud in the mix with too much highs.

Hope this helps abit

 

[-Loco-]

get the new soloC canadian metal pack from lepou's website

 

[NicholasDWolfwood]

So I've played around with the tone a little...

This is the result. (Don't mind the bass, it's still the scratch track - haven't had the chance to record the real bass track yet)

Gtr 1 and 2 (100 L / 100 R) = ESP/LTD EC-50 -> Line6 UX1 (Out 3/4 - Clean) -> SoloC -> 8505 -> C4 -> REQ -> kefir (s-preshigh)

left and right have slightly different EQs from each other so it's not "big mono". dual-tracked.

I'm thinking the biggest problem with my guitar tone here is the line6. I'm guessing that it doesn't have the best preamps in the world for getting a DI track. If I put, for example, Marcus' Holy Diver DIs through the same chain, it sounds WAY better with more clarity. I'm guessing his EMGs also play a part in it, while the LTD guitar that my guitar player is using has stock ESP LH-150 pickups.

Everything else has stayed the same, save for some different EQ in the drums (tried to make the kicks have a little more "oomph" and I took off the EQ on the ride as that was making it really brittle.)

I may just settle on this tone, as for now it's only a demo recording. This is definitely the best tone I've gotten so far, but there's still room for improvement I think.

 

[Rupturemetal]

Try using the 8505, it has more bite . I give a slight boost around 3500khz and it seems to bring out the meat without getting "honky sounding". And do a search for "our cab" sim on here.I dont hear to many people using it here , but I dig it.