Acoustic Drums for Metal: A Guide
- Thread starter Glenn Fricker
- Start date
Oooh bump! there u go. Thanx!
Culoide: cu-loee-de
Spanish is very straight forward as far as pronounciation goes. We only have 5 vowel sounds. It's bloody hell on earth when it comes to grammar though.
Culoide: cu-loee-de
Spanish is very straight forward as far as pronounciation goes. We only have 5 vowel sounds. It's bloody hell on earth when it comes to grammar though.
Nebulous
Daniel
Genius Gone Insane
http://www.¯\(°_o)/¯.com
Sinister Mephisto
1337
- Sep 20, 2005
- 2,900
- 1
- 38
I hope this is okay, I have a drum question and I think it's mildly appropriate to put in this thread.
I've been tuning drums and have made a TON of progress on the bass drum but taking off one of the heads and muting and tuning properly... blah blah blah... anyway, I'm excited about that.
So now I'm trying to get my snare to sound good and I have one big problem, a really long ringing sound. I get a nice crack, and then a long ringing of whatever I pitch I tuned the drum to and it's pretty crappy sounding. I've been able to mostly get rid of it by putting a sock on the drum but I imagine this isn't the right way to deal with the problem. I'm also not sure how close to the bottom head my snares should be, it affects the ringing to bring them up close but It probably affects other things too.
Thanks!
I've been tuning drums and have made a TON of progress on the bass drum but taking off one of the heads and muting and tuning properly... blah blah blah... anyway, I'm excited about that.
So now I'm trying to get my snare to sound good and I have one big problem, a really long ringing sound. I get a nice crack, and then a long ringing of whatever I pitch I tuned the drum to and it's pretty crappy sounding. I've been able to mostly get rid of it by putting a sock on the drum but I imagine this isn't the right way to deal with the problem. I'm also not sure how close to the bottom head my snares should be, it affects the ringing to bring them up close but It probably affects other things too.
Thanks!
Sinister Mephisto
1337
- Sep 20, 2005
- 2,900
- 1
- 38
Thanks a lot! I'll try that.
So any tips on stopping the first tom from making the snares vibrate? Maybe someone explained it already, but I missed it.
So any tips on stopping the first tom from making the snares vibrate? Maybe someone explained it already, but I missed it.
Nebulous
Daniel
EtherForBreakfast
Hamster Style
- Jun 19, 2005
- 1,012
- 0
- 36
Sinister Mephisto said:Thanks a lot! I'll try that.
So any tips on stopping the first tom from making the snares vibrate? Maybe someone explained it already, but I missed it.
Piece of cake.. just kill that tom mic to stop it from bleeding so it does not rattle the snare top in the main DFHS window.
OOPS! You meant REAL drums. =)
~BURNY~
Member
- Apr 20, 2005
- 5,091
- 67
- 48
Put some oil (for food) on the springs of the snare with a brush. I know this is disgusting but it works great. Of course you need to clean it once you finished recording.Sinister Mephisto said:Thanks a lot! I'll try that.
So any tips on stopping the first tom from making the snares vibrate? Maybe someone explained it already, but I missed it.
~BURNY~ said:
holy cow....DUDE..... genius! (although sometimes you may want it) :Spin: but does this in any way effect the high end of the snap of the snare? or wear through the head as i'm pretty sure Vegetable oils slowly polymerize (turn solids, rubbery mass) when exposed to oxygen..... or is that silicon oils, i know it's one of them!?!
Yo.
C.
-----------------------------------------------------------
www.carlbown.com (Production)
www.laruso.com (Band)
www.myspace.com/laruso (Myspace)
~BURNY~
Member
- Apr 20, 2005
- 5,091
- 67
- 48
Sure, if you put too much oil, it won't let the springs vibrate at all and you don't want it. You have to proportion it carefully. About polymerization I don't know but it is probably safe to check it daily if you record during several days. I'm not sure silicon will work cause it's not as dense as vegetable oil.
Sinister Mephisto
1337
- Sep 20, 2005
- 2,900
- 1
- 38
Sinister Mephisto said:Thanks a lot! I'll try that.
So any tips on stopping the first tom from making the snares vibrate? Maybe someone explained it already, but I missed it.
It sounds like your first tom & snare are tuned sympathetically..... you'll need to experiment with tuning one higher & one lower to minimize the effect. It won't disappear completely, but you can control it with tuning.
cobrahead1030
Member
- Nov 16, 2005
- 756
- 2
- 18
there's a product called moon gel (not sure who makes it) that's basically a container of little sticky pads...if something like a muting ring is cutting off too much, this stuff is a great go between; it's a really good and natural sounding
it's also good for toms that wanna resonate too much, even obnoxious cymbals sometimes
it's also good for toms that wanna resonate too much, even obnoxious cymbals sometimes
Nebulous
Daniel
OzNimbus i really need your help.
I recently bought the Tama Tension Watch and went to a friends house today with it. He recently started playing drums so i thought it would be a good opportunity for me to learn how to tune drums. The only problem is that i start tuning one skin, then by the time i finnish tuning it (started with bottom, then moved onto the top), the other goes out of tune!
Have you had this problem? I think it might be his El Cheapo drums and skins.
Any help would really be appreciated.
Daniel
I recently bought the Tama Tension Watch and went to a friends house today with it. He recently started playing drums so i thought it would be a good opportunity for me to learn how to tune drums. The only problem is that i start tuning one skin, then by the time i finnish tuning it (started with bottom, then moved onto the top), the other goes out of tune!
Have you had this problem? I think it might be his El Cheapo drums and skins.
Any help would really be appreciated.
Daniel
Hmm..... practise is the key here. If he's using an ancient set of drumheads, yeah, it isn't going to be much help. You might try tuning both heads slightly higher, maybe they'll stay in tune better. Also, make sure all his tuning mechanisms are clean & easily adjustable. You might need some DW-40 on the moving parts. Use it SPARINGLY, however.
-0z-
-0z-
PART 4 - TRACKING
"It's like watching a bunch of retards trying to hump a doorknob!" -Rip Torn, Dodgeball: A True Underdog Story.
Man, is this part long overdue. Chalk it up to writer's block, and being completely sidetracked trying to chase down the Nordstrom guitar sound. See "That Clayman" thread and you'll know what I mean.
No other part of making records can be as gratifying, or homicide inducing, as cutting drums. I've heard a lot of drummers talk about how great they are. This is where the truth comes out.
So, you've got your kit setup, tuned, miked, and sounding wicked in the room. Where to start? Headphones!
Now, if you'll recall, I said a baseball cap was needed in the essentials list. Drummers are rather sweaty animals, and phones can slip off (and will) at the worst times possible. Have the drummer put on his cap. Duct tape the headphones to the cap. I've also seen sweat bands wrapped around headphones as well. I've never used it, as duct tape always works for me. (Hey, I'm Canadian.) Now, the cap should keep things from shifting around too much. If that doesn't work, just say 'fuck it' and tape the phones directly to the drummer's head. This ALWAYS works. Don't worry trying to remove them at the end of the day. That's the drummer's problem. Not yours.
Baseball cap in place, it keeps the headphones from shifting around.
Next up: Talkback! One of the most critical elements in recording drums is the headphone amp. You're going to need LOADS of power. Something that will be louder than hell & won't distort. Fortunatley, it doesn't have to cost you a fortune.
This is the Alto 6 channel headphone amp. It's cheap, loud as fuck, and hasn't let me down in three years of constant use. Best $200 I've ever spent. Sure there's more expensive units out there, but with this one, I can gaurantee your drummer will be able to hear the other musicians.
Generally, I'll set up a 58 off to the side of my mix desk and run it into my Fireface's preamp, mix matrix, and out to the headphone amp. I'll usually communicate to the drummer via the overheads, but you can also set up a room mic as a dedicated intercom. Hell, you can even run the free SSL compressor plug on the drumroom talkback mic and use it for what is was originally intended for!
It's a pretty cool comp, and can get you that Phil Collins "In the air Tonight" tom fill if you want. Check out the site HERE.
Ok, so we'll assume communications have been established. Next up: Levels.
For setting individual mic levels, I'll order them as kick/snare/floor/rack2/rack1/OH left/ OH right.
It's important to remind the drummer to hit at HIS PLAYING LEVEL when you're first getting levels. Drummers are notorious pussies in this phase. "tap tap tap" for levels then "smash smash smash" when the song starts.
Also, it's important to note to the dipshit on the throne that drum solos aren't nessescary when getting levels. You've really gotta spell it out here, but make sure he understands that you need a steady 1....2....3....4 on the drum in question. That, and stop playing WHEN TOLD. I don't know how many times I've had a drummer arbitrarily stop hitting when I'm trying to get a level. Man, it's a good thing I don't keep guns in the studio.
Ok, so here's an important tip: No matter how much you scream at the drummer when getting levels, he's still going to hit like a little bitch until the band starts playing with him. I've met ONE drummer where this didn't happen, and the band had to fly him in from Sweden! So, as you're bringing up the gain on your mics, leave about 10dB of headroom. You'll need it. Going into the reds in digital is an absolute no-no, so it's best to err on the side of caution at least until the band has had a couple of practise runs on a song or two. Then, and only then, will you have an accurate picture of how hard the guy really hits when playing. Adjust your gain at that point.
Another point: As much as I hate amp sims & the enitre Line 6 product line, this is where they truly shine.... for tracking drums. It's a total no-brainer to have a couple guitar players in the drum room, running thru some Pods into headphones. You'll get that critical player on player eye contact, and no bleed at all. That, & setup time is absolutely minimal.... aside from the 'more me' bitching about the headphone cue mix. Just remember, the drummer counts here, not the other guys. As long as he's happy & can keep a beat, the rest is gravy. I usually remind the players that they need a mix that they can all agree upon.
So now what? You've got your levels, your guitar players are amp simmed into the headphone mix, and the band is ready to play. Anything else?
Yes..... rolloff the headphone feed. Dump everything below 100hz going to the headphones. When the group starts playing as a whole, that means a shitload of bottom end that most headphones can't reproduce very well anyway. With the bass rolled off, it'll make for a much more pleasant experience. Another trick, if the band can't seem to get the phones loud enough, is to strap an L1 across the headphone feed. Crush & blast away.
Usually, I'll keep a spare set of phones in the control room so I can really hear what's going on. Asking a drummer to describe a headphone mix is like asking Hellen Keller to describe the celing at the Sistine Chapel.
....And we're off. Tape's rolling, the band's rocking, the levels are good, and the fucking hi-hat is bleeding into the snare too much! What to do? Remember that 'extra' mic I mentioned in the essentials list? This is where it comes in handy. You can 'ask' a drummer to hit a hi-hat softer, but you might as well ask for the sun to rise in the West. It ain't gonna happen.
One thing I'll do when setting up: I'll leave the hi-hat clutch set so there's nearly no pedal action, therefore getting a nice 'swish' .... just barely open. I've found that the more open the hats are, the louder they are.
Now the first thing a drummer will do is reach over to open them up. This is where I explain, "Dude, we're recording metal, not disco. You don't need your hats open that wide." Usually, this does the trick. However, if you're stuck recording a stubborn jackass, more drastic measures are needed.
The extra mic: set it up and get it close on the hats. If the drummer asks what you're doing, explain that you want to capture all the 'subtleties' of his hat playing. Yeah, about as subtle as a wrecking ball.
If you have a decent soundcard, you'll have the ability to setup individual cue mixes. You'll want to set up a channel for a 'drummer mix.' This is where you bring in the hat mic. You won't actually be recording this mic, just running it back to the drummer. Get some gain on it, and work it into his headphone feed. DO NOT actually tell him what you're up to, or it won't work. Increase the level going to his phones as he's playing. He should back off on the hats as they're going to get painful in the phones. If you're stilll having trouble, strap an L1 across the hat mic & crank it up. That should do the trick.
It's also important to note that drummers are used to playing with tons of hi frequencies smashing around from the cymbals. When he puts on headphones, it's like adding a Lowpass filter to his ears. Make sure he's getting plenty of overheads in his phone mix, or he'll subconsiously compensate for the lack of hi end by hitting the cymbals harder, and the drums softer. This is what we DON'T want.
Ok, so now we've got things finally rocking. Hit record & hope for the best. You're going to have to play 'coach' for the drummer. Keep his morale up. If he can play to a click, then by all means, track to a click. If it screws him up , dump it. It can cause more grief than it's worth.
Remember, it is possible to punch drums. If there are some rests in the song, these are prime spots for a punch in. It's much harder to punch drums during the middle of a fast beat. Slip editing can be a huge help here.
One final thing: at the end of the day, sample the kit. Kick, snare, toms, individual cymbals, cymbal pairs, you name it. I find having a couple of cymbal samples can help during mixing. You never know where you might need to fly in a clean cymbal tail... I.E., then end of a song where you got a perfect performance, only to have the dumb fuck drop his sticks as the cymbals are fading out.... That sort of thing.
Ok, that's it for now. I might add a 'part 4.5.... punching drums' because it can get pretty in-depth. But, hopefully I've helped you guys get a strategy together for tracking drums.
Until next update...
-0z-
"It's like watching a bunch of retards trying to hump a doorknob!" -Rip Torn, Dodgeball: A True Underdog Story.
Man, is this part long overdue. Chalk it up to writer's block, and being completely sidetracked trying to chase down the Nordstrom guitar sound. See "That Clayman" thread and you'll know what I mean.
No other part of making records can be as gratifying, or homicide inducing, as cutting drums. I've heard a lot of drummers talk about how great they are. This is where the truth comes out.
So, you've got your kit setup, tuned, miked, and sounding wicked in the room. Where to start? Headphones!
Now, if you'll recall, I said a baseball cap was needed in the essentials list. Drummers are rather sweaty animals, and phones can slip off (and will) at the worst times possible. Have the drummer put on his cap. Duct tape the headphones to the cap. I've also seen sweat bands wrapped around headphones as well. I've never used it, as duct tape always works for me. (Hey, I'm Canadian.) Now, the cap should keep things from shifting around too much. If that doesn't work, just say 'fuck it' and tape the phones directly to the drummer's head. This ALWAYS works. Don't worry trying to remove them at the end of the day. That's the drummer's problem. Not yours.
Baseball cap in place, it keeps the headphones from shifting around.
Next up: Talkback! One of the most critical elements in recording drums is the headphone amp. You're going to need LOADS of power. Something that will be louder than hell & won't distort. Fortunatley, it doesn't have to cost you a fortune.
This is the Alto 6 channel headphone amp. It's cheap, loud as fuck, and hasn't let me down in three years of constant use. Best $200 I've ever spent. Sure there's more expensive units out there, but with this one, I can gaurantee your drummer will be able to hear the other musicians.
Generally, I'll set up a 58 off to the side of my mix desk and run it into my Fireface's preamp, mix matrix, and out to the headphone amp. I'll usually communicate to the drummer via the overheads, but you can also set up a room mic as a dedicated intercom. Hell, you can even run the free SSL compressor plug on the drumroom talkback mic and use it for what is was originally intended for!
It's a pretty cool comp, and can get you that Phil Collins "In the air Tonight" tom fill if you want. Check out the site HERE.
Ok, so we'll assume communications have been established. Next up: Levels.
For setting individual mic levels, I'll order them as kick/snare/floor/rack2/rack1/OH left/ OH right.
It's important to remind the drummer to hit at HIS PLAYING LEVEL when you're first getting levels. Drummers are notorious pussies in this phase. "tap tap tap" for levels then "smash smash smash" when the song starts.
Also, it's important to note to the dipshit on the throne that drum solos aren't nessescary when getting levels. You've really gotta spell it out here, but make sure he understands that you need a steady 1....2....3....4 on the drum in question. That, and stop playing WHEN TOLD. I don't know how many times I've had a drummer arbitrarily stop hitting when I'm trying to get a level. Man, it's a good thing I don't keep guns in the studio.
Ok, so here's an important tip: No matter how much you scream at the drummer when getting levels, he's still going to hit like a little bitch until the band starts playing with him. I've met ONE drummer where this didn't happen, and the band had to fly him in from Sweden! So, as you're bringing up the gain on your mics, leave about 10dB of headroom. You'll need it. Going into the reds in digital is an absolute no-no, so it's best to err on the side of caution at least until the band has had a couple of practise runs on a song or two. Then, and only then, will you have an accurate picture of how hard the guy really hits when playing. Adjust your gain at that point.
Another point: As much as I hate amp sims & the enitre Line 6 product line, this is where they truly shine.... for tracking drums. It's a total no-brainer to have a couple guitar players in the drum room, running thru some Pods into headphones. You'll get that critical player on player eye contact, and no bleed at all. That, & setup time is absolutely minimal.... aside from the 'more me' bitching about the headphone cue mix. Just remember, the drummer counts here, not the other guys. As long as he's happy & can keep a beat, the rest is gravy. I usually remind the players that they need a mix that they can all agree upon.
So now what? You've got your levels, your guitar players are amp simmed into the headphone mix, and the band is ready to play. Anything else?
Yes..... rolloff the headphone feed. Dump everything below 100hz going to the headphones. When the group starts playing as a whole, that means a shitload of bottom end that most headphones can't reproduce very well anyway. With the bass rolled off, it'll make for a much more pleasant experience. Another trick, if the band can't seem to get the phones loud enough, is to strap an L1 across the headphone feed. Crush & blast away.
Usually, I'll keep a spare set of phones in the control room so I can really hear what's going on. Asking a drummer to describe a headphone mix is like asking Hellen Keller to describe the celing at the Sistine Chapel.
....And we're off. Tape's rolling, the band's rocking, the levels are good, and the fucking hi-hat is bleeding into the snare too much! What to do? Remember that 'extra' mic I mentioned in the essentials list? This is where it comes in handy. You can 'ask' a drummer to hit a hi-hat softer, but you might as well ask for the sun to rise in the West. It ain't gonna happen.
One thing I'll do when setting up: I'll leave the hi-hat clutch set so there's nearly no pedal action, therefore getting a nice 'swish' .... just barely open. I've found that the more open the hats are, the louder they are.
Now the first thing a drummer will do is reach over to open them up. This is where I explain, "Dude, we're recording metal, not disco. You don't need your hats open that wide." Usually, this does the trick. However, if you're stuck recording a stubborn jackass, more drastic measures are needed.
The extra mic: set it up and get it close on the hats. If the drummer asks what you're doing, explain that you want to capture all the 'subtleties' of his hat playing. Yeah, about as subtle as a wrecking ball.
If you have a decent soundcard, you'll have the ability to setup individual cue mixes. You'll want to set up a channel for a 'drummer mix.' This is where you bring in the hat mic. You won't actually be recording this mic, just running it back to the drummer. Get some gain on it, and work it into his headphone feed. DO NOT actually tell him what you're up to, or it won't work. Increase the level going to his phones as he's playing. He should back off on the hats as they're going to get painful in the phones. If you're stilll having trouble, strap an L1 across the hat mic & crank it up. That should do the trick.
It's also important to note that drummers are used to playing with tons of hi frequencies smashing around from the cymbals. When he puts on headphones, it's like adding a Lowpass filter to his ears. Make sure he's getting plenty of overheads in his phone mix, or he'll subconsiously compensate for the lack of hi end by hitting the cymbals harder, and the drums softer. This is what we DON'T want.
Ok, so now we've got things finally rocking. Hit record & hope for the best. You're going to have to play 'coach' for the drummer. Keep his morale up. If he can play to a click, then by all means, track to a click. If it screws him up , dump it. It can cause more grief than it's worth.
Remember, it is possible to punch drums. If there are some rests in the song, these are prime spots for a punch in. It's much harder to punch drums during the middle of a fast beat. Slip editing can be a huge help here.
One final thing: at the end of the day, sample the kit. Kick, snare, toms, individual cymbals, cymbal pairs, you name it. I find having a couple of cymbal samples can help during mixing. You never know where you might need to fly in a clean cymbal tail... I.E., then end of a song where you got a perfect performance, only to have the dumb fuck drop his sticks as the cymbals are fading out.... That sort of thing.
Ok, that's it for now. I might add a 'part 4.5.... punching drums' because it can get pretty in-depth. But, hopefully I've helped you guys get a strategy together for tracking drums.
Until next update...
-0z-
