Acoustic Drums for Metal: A Guide

[deathtotaliban]

I saw that diagram about a year ago before I was really into recording and I never did try it but the site thats from gave me a lot of other basic micing techniques and stuff like that, I'll be trying it on my next project this sunday, my first death metal band, I've waited so long, ha.

 

[GeertSamuel]

I just tried that 3:1 thing...just amazing!! Allthough my OH mics might suck...I deffenately can hear a difference...I prever this way above xy-pattern setting..

Waiting for AKG C451....waiting waiting waitng...

 

[A Toolish Circle]

Is this comment aimed at me?

nono , not at all . it's not aimed at anyone in particular. i hope i didn't sound rude to anyone but i must say i was surprised even when OzNimbus wasn't clued in on the 3 : 1 even though he had been recording for 10 years ,just proves that recording is a such a deep and intricate art that even those experienced are always learning the basics .

and yet we've all learnt so much off him as well from his acoustic drum guide

 

[black sugar]

Has anyone here ever tried this method for overheads? Seems like a variation of the old Glyn Johns method. You place the first overhead mic ("left") directly over the center of the snare about 2 drum sticks end-to-end from the center of the snare...straight up, to the capsule of the mic.

Then, you take the drum sticks (end-to-end) from the center of the snare over to above your (drummer's) right shoulder and place your second (right) overhead mic here. Measure the distance from the center of the kick to each of these mics to make sure it's the same, as well make sure that it's also equally distant from the kick and snare. Listen with headphones and have the drummer lightly hit his kick drum to adjust the "right" mic's angle until the kick is in the middle of your image.

In theory, it's supposed to place the snare & the kick in the center when you pan these mics hard left and right and place the overheads in a position which is in-phase with the kick, snare and overheads. It also supposedly makes your snare and toms louder in relation to the cymbals letting you bring them up more in the mix.

Never tried it, but I'm curious to get thoughts on this method if anyone has?

I've tried it. It's known on various forums as the modified Glyn Johns or "Recorderman" technique. There are a number of varaiations, including adding a ribbon or LDC in front of the kit, and the "shoulder" mic (Recorderman) can be swapped out with the Glyn Johns pointing over the floor tom thing. It's all pretty interchangeable as far as I'm concerned.

I would never use it for metal. It's definitely more of a "retro" rock technique. In most respects, I've found it pretty similar to the fat, narrow image, smeared hats/cymbals, but nice snare sound that ORTF and XY overheads tend to have. It's a cliche notion, but it really does require a drummer with good control, good sounding kit, and a good drum room doesn't hurt either.

Oh, and the "two sticks" distance is total bullshit. That's a mic like 3 feet over the snare drum. If you're recording Charlie Watts, go for it.

 

[Daunt]

I don't have a phase-invert button on my preamp. So should I solder a phase-inverted XLR-cable for the bottom mic, or should I just go with a normal cable and reverse the phase in DAW?

Is it a "general starting point" to record the bottom snare mic w/ inverted phase?

Do it in the DAW. When I record my Sonor piccolo snare, I don't invert the phase of the bottom mic. It sounds weaker that way. I check it everytime in the mixing stage. So, inverting the phase of the bottom mic is not a starting point for me. Experiment with the phase button if you are using samples with the mic sound. This applys to kick also.

 

[Glenn Fricker]

nono , not at all . it's not aimed at anyone in particular. i hope i didn't sound rude to anyone but i must say i was surprised even when OzNimbus wasn't clued in on the 3 : 1 even though he had been recording for 10 years ,just proves that recording is a such a deep and intricate art that even those experienced are always learning the basics .

and yet we've all learnt so much off him as well from his acoustic drum guide

Actually, I do remember my audio prof vaguely mentioning it... Then again he had one of those "late night FM" voices that put EVERYBODY to sleep.
I do remember monkeying around with spaced pairs during my first few live drum recordings, funny, it looks like I got the 3:1 thing right just by ear.
Here's a pic from '98 or '99 in my first studio... Live snare & cymbals, Vdrums for everything else.

That shot there was probably the last time I used a spaced pair for about 6 years....I guess the point I'm trying to make is this: Never stop trying to learn. Don't be afraid of asking questions, either. There's always someone with more knowledge.

 

[Nebulous]

do you know what a pick-up pattern is? here's one, a standard cardioid pick-up pattern:

the red line ass shaped figure on this graph is the pick-up pattern. the "ass crack" is the null point, where sound is most rejected.... so basically, aim cardioud mics away from things you want them to pick up the least. such as your snare mic... position it on the snare so that the hats are directly behind it, at the snare mic's null point.

Ah, cool, man. I thought it was that, i was just confused as to how it would work for OH....?

 

[James Murphy]

Ah, cool, man. I thought it was that, i was just confused as to how it would work for OH....?

i'll quote myself in ansnwer to that:

...generally i tilt the mics toward the cymbal groups, placing the mics to where the null points in their cardioid patterns are rejecting as much snare as possible.

 

[Nebulous]

OK, i just re-read the last page with all the new stuff and gathered this :
you just have the OH set up so that the top of the mic (where the XLR plugs in) faces inwards (centre of the kit: snare) and the diaphram faces outwards (away from the klit, towards the cymbals).
The only reason im "confused" about his is because i always thought that the OH were supose to face down at the floor.....thinking bout it now it sounds stupid, and i forgot the all important rule : "there are no rules"

 

[James Murphy]

OK, i just re-read the last page with all the new stuff and gathered this :
you just have the OH set up so that the top of the mic (where the XLR plugs in) faces inwards (centre of the kit: snare) and the diaphram faces outwards (away from the klit, towards the cymbals).
The only reason im "confused" about his is because i always thought that the OH were supose to face down at the floor.....thinking bout it now it sounds stupid, and i forgot the all important rule : "there are no rules"

i just tilt them out a bit... they actually reject more of what's on the opposite side than snare, but every little bit helps. i just like to have as little snare as possible in OHs for metal.

 

[~BURNY~]

"I'm not able to test the Murphy's pair "
Wow that sounds gay, does it?...
Sorry...
@ATC, no problem...I see your point

 

[Nebulous]

i just tilt them out a bit... they actually reject more of what's on the opposite side than snare, but every little bit helps. i just like to have as little snare as possible in OHs for metal.

Cheers man. So much to learn, so little time (well, patience)

 

[Lord Lurion]

Uhm... bounce?

And its a HEART shape, not an arse shape, LOL!

I swear I laughed my bollocks off with that.

 

[LynchpiN]

James' signature mics have patterns that are either buttioid, figure of tits or amnal.

 

[cobrahead1030]

big time thanks to OzNimbus for including the detailed explanation of phase alignment v.s. just inverting the phase on one channel...going back over some drum tracks we've recorded recently, i found that a phase aligned sound is working MUCH better!!!

 

[James Murphy]

Uhm... bounce?

And its a HEART shape, not an arse shape, LOL!

I swear I laughed my bollocks off with that.

bounce??

i'm well aware that "cardiod" means heart shaped... learned it the first day i looked up "microphones" close to 20 years ago... that and my mom was a nurse in a cardiologist's office for 12 years.... i just think the "ass" analogy works to make the point that the "hole" in the pick-up pattern is in the "rear".

 

[Muttley]

bounce??

i'm well aware that "cardiod" means heart shaped... learned it the first day i looked up "microphones" close to 20 years ago... that and my mom was a nurse in a cardiologist's office for 12 years.... i just think the "ass" analogy works to make the pont that the "hole" in the pick-up pattern is in the "rear".

 

[Lord Lurion]

I proposed renaming "cardioide" to "culoide" at school today (culo is arse in spanish). It was very much acclaimed and everyone has adopted the term. Mr. Murphy, you've started a trend!

I never doubted that you were aware of the meaning of cardioid, BTW.

 

[SPLASTiK]

I've always though hyper cardioid looked like an ass taking a dump...

 

[Lord Lurion]

bounce??

Yeah... Isn't bringing a thread up from the depths of olivion called bouncing a thread? I thing this thread in particular needs to be stickyed.