Advices on mic choice for live performance (drums)

[Heabow]

Hey,

A friend of mine will play with a new band at a festival and asked me to help him to choose the right mics for his drumkit (22"/10"/12"/16"). As the title says, I need some advices as I'm not sure (I'm not into FOH stuff at all myself). He will be playing in a 500 people venue and it's kind of a rock-ish Metal with no fast playing. Nothing fancy though but I would like to get a good standard set up. What I was thinking of:

Kick: D6 (maybe an e602? Also, do I need an e901 or someting like that?)
Snare top/bot: 2xSM57
Toms: D2 (or e604 as second choice) for rack toms and D6 for floor tom (need another option)
OHs: C414 (need another option)
Hats, ride and china: dunno really what's generally used

Thank you!

 

[DesireX]

For me, I would prefer to use a SDC on the snare bottom. (Maybe something like the Rode NT5/ Neumann KM184?)
For toms, MD421s are my preferred choice.
As for the spot cymbals, I would use KM184s.

Hope that helps!

 

[jeid]

I think what you've got down is pretty good. I do sound from time to time at a 700 capacity venue. We use.

Kick: Beta 91
Snare: 2x SM57
Toms: E604's
OH: AKG C391B's

The overheads pick up all the cymbals quite well and there's never been a need to spot mic rides/china etc. 414's will be excellent overheads.

 

[Heabow]

Thank you guys.
I thought about using 421s for toms but for some reason I thought that was not the best choice for live situation. I was wrong obviously ;-)
Only one mic for the kick needed? D6 would be my first choice or an e602.

 

[DesireX]

Thank you guys.
I thought about using 421s for toms but for some reason I thought that was not the best choice for live situation. I was wrong obviously ;-)
Only one mic for the kick needed? D6 would be my first choice or an e602.

421s rock for both studio and live situations! Yeah, I usually use only one mic for the kick in live situations. Most of the times I use a d112, but a D6 would be a better mic in your situation IMO. Would be easier to get the click out of the kick.

 

[KillFrenzy]

421 are amazing but sometimes a pain to get in the right position. Also, if you want/need to eliminate mic stands, smaller mics are a better choice. Of course, if these are not problems and you have enough money for the 421s, go get them. Otherwise, the e604s are very good even on floor toms.
Specially for live use, I think the Audix D2, D4 and D6 are VERY good. I used them on non-metal bands and the results were amazing. They are mountable and with the DVice you can position them almost freely.

 

[Manicompression]

I doubt your drummer friend is going to need his own mics if he is playing a festival, or in any situation where there is a stage and a PA system. I doubt the soundman would even entertain the idea of setting up new mics just for one bands set unless they are the headliner. Also, unless your friend is a millionaire rock star I wouldn't recommend tossing Neumann KM184's or AKG 414's on a stage either.

I could see the value in having a set of mics on the off chance that he is playing some weird ass gig where that might come in handy. This being the case Id say rugged, tough, and proven are the way to go. One of the Audix, or Shure drum kits would be a great choice. I would recomend the beta 57 in a live context as well, because you will bust a regular one in no time. Most of the time you dont even need to mic cymbals untill you graduate to a slightly bigger room. You dont need to mic the snare bottom either. FWIW I ran sound intermittently at a medium sized venue for a couple years and learned a little from guys much better than myself. Its a different discipline with a similar skill-set.

 

[Heabow]

Thanks.

Well, the guys want to know what they can ask on the spec sheet for this show. They don't plan to buy any mic. As I don't know much about live situation, I'd tend to ask something good yet standard. Don't know what overhead mics are commonly used. (and I will not be the sound guy) I think this set is ok:
Kick: D6 or Beta 91
Sn top & bot: SM57s
Tom 1 & 2: D2 or E604
Tom 3: D6 or E604

 

[Nolly]

Basically what others have said, ease of placement is one of the most important factors here. We've had a lot of different mic setups on my band's drummer's kit, I'd say the Shure Beta 91 is by far the easiest option for kick and sounds killer out front. Beta 57 on snare is excellent and the hypercardiod pattern means you can place it very easily between the first rack and the hats (you don't need to bring it under the hats like a cardiod to get the rejection you want). e604s on toms and snare bottom sound great and clip on so you can be ready to go in no time. For overheads, Shure SM94s always work and are hard to beat at the price point.

 

[arvoitus]

I prefer the Beta 91 over the E602. It is much easier to get a good sound from with good punch and attack, and it doesn't need a mic stand ... and most of the time it doesn't need a gate.
SM57 on top and/or bottom snare is always good.
For toms i always use the sennheiser e604, but i'm curious to try out the shure beta 98a.
Overheads, hats and china: Shure SM81

 

[BLUElightCory]

You want mics that aren't too expensive, reject bleed well and have a low profile and good ergonomics. You don't want expensive, large mics with bad mounts or that can be difficult to position on crowded kits (i.e. Sennheiser MD421).

For kick, the Shure Beta 91 or Sennheiser e901 are amazing for live use. You just lay them inside the drum, so there is no stand to get in the way and plenty of isolation from the rest of the kit.

For snare, a 57 is fine, or you can use something like a Beta 57 or a Telefunken M80 if you want extra clarity and better rejection.

For toms, the Audio Technica ATM450, Granelli Labs G5790 (an SM57 with a right-angle shape that's easy to position), Heil PR31BW, and Sennheiser e609 are all easy to position and sound good.

For overheads, anything decent that isn't too expensive should work. Shure SM81, AT ATM450, Oktava MK012, etc.

 

[cfh11]

i have only done FOH work very sparingly but i can vouch for the fact that the audix d4/d2/i5/d6 set is very easy to get a good sound out of. and of course sm57/beta57s are always a good choice.

 

[Trevoire520]

If it's for a spec on a festival then just go for the standard stuff that you know they'll have. No point in asking for anything out of the ordinary or being too picky about what you get as I'm assuming you don't have your own FOH guy? (if so he should really be writing this up)

Kick: Shure Beta 91A inside (This is the only mic I'd say is essential/non negotiable on a metal bands spec)
Audix D6/Shure Beta 52 or even the dreaded D112 outside are good to get the subs working.
Snare: Shure SM57/Audix I5 are fine for both top and bottom
Toms: Sennhesier E604, Audix D2, Shure B56A etc are also fine.
Overheads: To be honest any half decent condenser will work here. SM81 is pretty common typically.

 

[aortizjr]

I started in live sound and have used a lot of stuff. For small to medium venues you usually don't mic overheads. I am surprised no one else here mics the hi-hat. Live sound to me is more about controlling feed back which means tight patterns and good monitor placement and mic placement away from the monitors.

I actually like it when drummers have mics already attached to their drums because it is placed out of their way where they want it. I can just plug in their stuff. Way less hassle than maneuvering mics around the usual metal kit. Most drummers NEVER think of mics, their snare is surrounded by shit, nearly impossible to get a mic in there. Cymbals way to low to the toms.. etc. In a festival/line-check environment the EQ tweaks are usually the same and you have to adjust gain anyway.

But even then, usually just toms and snare. I usually still use my kick and OH's, Hat if they are there.

I have never used the Audix D's, but I have read their D-Vice clips fall apart.. but reviews are difficult because it could be operator error. Goosnecks in general have a shorter life span though, IME... and it still might be user error haha.

I like the e604's since they are low profile, clips to every tom I have seen, and the clips have been really reliable. Actually I also have a set of PG drum mics and those work really well too. Even on snare the e604's sound pretty good, more meaty than a 57 but less crack. But some snares I have seen with weird rims like rubber or wood, so keep a stand handy.

I wouldn't bring anything expensive, especially as a traveling kit. Yeah 421's and KM184's are great.. but really... for live use? If you are seriously at that level, let your live sound engineer determine what they like.

In my live kit for drums:

I have 3 e604's and a shure pg kit, some 57's, and 2 d6's (double kick dudes).

Kick: D6
Snare: 57 or e604
Snare Bottom: usually don't bother, but sometimes 57 or i5
Rack Toms: e604 or pg56
Floor Toms: e604 or pg56...sometimes PG52 or the other night I had a dude with 6 toms, so for an extra floor, I had a cheap ass gear one kick mic someone gave me and an extra clip mount. Sounded fucking great on that low low floor tom. Might use that more.
Hat: 57 (condenser would be nice, but a 57 works)
OH's: Most metal shows are smaller venues, so I never use them. When I do I just pull my PG91's.

Actually honestly that Shure PG kit has turned out to be great. Even for how cheap it is and an entry level set, I bought it over 13 years ago now and been on countless gigs. They are a bit boring sounding if that makes sense, but they work and take a beating. It is just a great kit with the case and everything. In a pinch, they work on horns, vocals, cabs, etc.

Live sound in general I find a lot more forgiving in some ways, but harder and less forgiving in others. Teaches you more about making things work in the most un-ideal situations. But because you are fighting a room, constantly moving acoustic treatment (ie. people) it is hard to get things perfect anyway. And most will love it, but there are always haters.