After using couple of years Slate VCC/VTM, Nebula and Satson..

[worldwideweapon]

..I feel these analog modeling, emulations of consoles/tape machines are really working against me on 99% of the cases.

Been analyzing my work (mostly modern metal and rock) and learning curve past couple years and now looking it back, I feel I've started to struggle and concentrate on totally wrong things when defaulting and inserting emu's into the workflow. And this has mainly been happenin' just cause "you're suppose to and all the big guys made their records in the past like this"..

Noise, lost punch and transient attacks, extensive mud on lows and low mids to mention those few "sought after"-qualities that I've grown to hate as time has passed.
And all this occurred to me still, even I've always been very meticulous about gain staging and using this stuff lightly and the "correct" way.

To confirm my analysis, worked last mix totally without these tools and was very happy to find out that the mix still had glue, depth and vibe in the final product and there was for sure extra dose of punch and separation happening!

There's always those few old school vibe projects where these tools come in handy but on a lot of times, I feel this stuff takes more than it gives to the process and you need a lot of extra work to subdue the negatives. After all I've always digged a lot of reference stuff that's mostly done purely ITB.

How are you guys feeling and diggin' these tools nowadays? Any similar thoughts floating around here? Let's have some healthy discussion about the whole trend and where it's at the moment.

 

[AudioGeekZine]

nope but I don't worry too much about who uses what and the right way to do things in a mix.

I use VCC and others on the tracks that need it. I quickly AB and tweak and ditch it if there is no improvement.

 

[SoundsLikeFog]

Personally, I think the main problem is people overdoing these kind of things.
People grown ITB "wan't to hear it working". I think it was Will Wittman who said something about driving VCC: "If my Neve sounded like that, I'd have it repaired." Or something along those lines..

I've seen people insert VCC etc with input and drive cranck'd as a standard-go-to-solution.. Maybe the logic behind this is: Magical Analog Saturating (tm) = best, MAS (tm) cranck'd = more bestness. People tend to use these kind of plugins in ways that no one would ever use their original counter parts.

As always, it's not the tools.. I know myself good enough to be a sucker for these kinds of things, so only constant vigilance stops me from shooting myself in the foot. Sometimes.. We're all just humans in the end.

 

[tempe]

If you gain stage the way a sane person would and A/B the processing it's fine, just another tool to help us all make better mixes!

 

[Trevoire520]

Personally I really can't get on without VTM & VCC on my guitars anymore, it's hard to describe what it adds but it takes away a bit of harshness and makes them more full and 3D sounding to me.
I also like what VCC does to drum transients, and as a quick "problem solver eq" it also works well. e.g need more bottom end push on the kick? put on the Neve. Need more brightness/cut from the snare? Use the API.

The only think I have noticed that I don't like is that the lows on the Neve can easily get WAY out of control. Saw some frequency response curves on a SOS review and it looks like the further down the spectrum you get the more low end there is for that model. Really eats up headroom.

 

[HOFX]

I feel it helps, particularly getting a smooth, consistent low end, and separation between instruments such as bass and kick drum. Also, boosting high shelf EQs don't come across as brittle.

I think it works for me 99 % of the time.

 

[crillemannen]

Personally, I think the main problem is people overdoing these kind of things.
People grown ITB "wan't to hear it working". I think it was Will Wittman who said something about driving VCC: "If my Neve sounded like that, I'd have it repaired." Or something along those lines..

Yeah thats the problem. Ive been in that situation too, overdoing it, bypassing the VCC and going like WTF it sounds better. Especially on metal mixes on rock you can go crazy with saturation and it still works. So these days i use VCC but not on too many instances. ITs still an awesome plugin.

 

[Max Morton]

In terms of metal and extreme metal, I'm with the topic starter. I'm extremely careful with the knobs, I also never let the VTM fool me by boosting the output. I have a volume fader for that, thank you. So, with metal, I prefer saturating separate stuff, like vocals, overheads, sometimes keyboards or guitars.

What I found, is that using saturation everywhere in the mix, and then on the masterbus is like writing only in capital letters. CAPITAL LETTERS MAKE NO MORE SENSE IF ALL THE LETTERS A CAPITAL. I love the precision and definition of ITB summing. And when something is too defined or too dry, an instance of VCC and VTM is quite often a way to go.

The Toneboosters TapeBus is quite different though. It has lots of different tapes in it, some of them are amazing to achieve a brighter sound (or on contrary, more mellow), to compress it in a specific way, etc. I find myself using it on groups quite often when it comes to cellos, acoustic guitars, sometimes vocals, etc etc. Sweet!

 

[superfreak]

In terms of metal and extreme metal, I'm with the topic starter. I'm extremely careful with the knobs, I also never let the VTM fool me by boosting the output. I have a volume fader for that, thank you. So, with metal, I prefer saturating separate stuff, like vocals, overheads, sometimes keyboards or guitars.

What I found, is that using saturation everywhere in the mix, and then on the masterbus is like writing only in capital letters. CAPITAL LETTERS MAKE NO MORE SENSE IF ALL THE LETTERS A CAPITAL. I love the precision and definition of ITB summing. And when something is too defined or too dry, an instance of VCC and VTM is quite often a way to go.

The Toneboosters TapeBus is quite different though. It has lots of different tapes in it, some of them are amazing to achieve a brighter sound (or on contrary, more mellow), to compress it in a specific way, etc. I find myself using it on groups quite often when it comes to cellos, acoustic guitars, sometimes vocals, etc etc. Sweet!

I have had the exact same experience. I tried VCC and VTM on a technical extreme metal band I'm currently mixing and I found that all the attack and definition from guitars just disappeared. The whole mix sounded muddy and I was struggling to get individual instruments to fit. The moment I took off all the instances of VCC and VTM, the whole mix became crystal clear! On the master bus, I ended up with just the NI Passive EQ and Vari Comp. I think I left the VCC Bus on the master bus though, not sure.

On the other hand, I love what they do to non-metal productions! I wrote a modern rock song recently and VCC+VTM made the guitars and drums so damn huge. I haven't recorded bass yet but I'm sure they'll work for the bass tracks as well.

 

[Nimvi]

To Bormoleos: TB Reelbus is a great tool indeed. I use it just as much as VTM and both of them do something the other one can't. I like that Reelbus has a couple of very distinct colours and a lot of versatility and options within those. I also LOVE the W&F on those last 3 tapes. Instant casette-deck vibes if you need them, and they can go from subtle to really extreme.
And seriously, the price of that thing is ridiculously low. Super cool!

About original topic: Out of those mentioned, I only have experience with VCC and VTM.
I agree that VTM should be used carefully, if at all. It is very effective, and a good way to start off on a mix that sounds sterile or harsh imo, or if you are just going for that vintage vibe, but it is also super-easy to go overboard. I don't use it unless I think a track calls for it. With tape plugins in general, I think restraint is in order.

Maybe it's just my taste, but with VCC I cannot really remember any situation where I liked the original track better than the VCCd one. Like Trevoire, I use and select the console-type as a good starting-point for what I intend to do, and then I never touch it again.
I agree that all of the consoles have things to look out for; Neve can get muddy, Api can be harsh, Trident can be a bit "hissy" in the top-end, SSL can sound a bit congested and rolls off highs rather substantially, and the RC-tube can distort easily on otherwise normal input-levels (is this normal btw?). But I try to think of those properties as counters for common problems.
But I should also add that to me, the greatest magic in VCC lies in the mixbus-instance.

 

[Nuno Filipe]

I never used the others but satson is amazing, you put it on masterbus and the music becomes more 3D, really, really makes the difference. But I am not using it on every single instrument, sometimes I just use it as a high pass filter. Satson is great as a filter to remove the junk. Till now, the best I heard to clean the shit.

 

[Mashreef]

Satson is really good on removing the junks... and the VU meter is great for gain staging

 

[Uros]

the VU meter is great for gain staging

not so much if you gain stage drum tracks

 

[FarBeyondMetal]

I halfway agree. I use tape and console stuff only on busses, I never got into the swing of putting them on every track. Tape sim on the drum buss is a must for me though

 

[Melodeath]

I myself have started to question if my mixes have gotten too muddy since I started using VTM, although I typically use 15 IPS on all the tracks as well as the vintage tape formula, so that's my own fault. It could also just be coincidence. It could also be that the mixes aren't actually muddy, and I'm just being more and more critical. Never noticed any ill-effects from VCC regardless, though.

 

[Mago]

I don't own VTM yet, but for VCC I can say that I don't use it on every channel on default...most of the times it works great for me, but in some cases it sounds better without (quite rarely though).
But I go easy on it, it's not one of the plugins were you want to hear an immediate effect on the source...most of the times at least. Sometimes it can work cool if you want some more subtle distortion.
I guess if you never fucked up a mix on an analogue console, cause you thought driving it that much was awesome, then it's easier to overuse these kind of plugins

On the masterbus however, it always have VCC. Just too awesome to not use it. Not always on the same setting, but I haven't printed a master without it since I have it.

 

[Mikaël-ange]

Personally, I think the main problem is people overdoing these kind of things.
People grown ITB "wan't to hear it working". I think it was Will Wittman who said something about driving VCC: "If my Neve sounded like that, I'd have it repaired." Or something along those lines..

This

I think most people who never used LFAC would be in terror mod the first time they would use one.
It's console, not a distortion grind machine

 

[Melodeath]

That's a good point. I never turn drive up, and always gain stage properly so that I get the VU meter around 0dB, as advised in the manual.

 

[LeSedna]

Same here, I simply use it as a flavour plugin and never use the drive knob, I only gain stage it. Sometimes I would push slightly inside the red but that's rare. Without overdoing it, I have never found the need to remove a VCC instance, I always prefer the sound of it even if the ITB would have more clarity, it just sounds more pleasant to my ears.

Same with tape sims, I simply 'use and forget' their instances, I just don't put them all over the place though.