SunlapseVertigo said:
thats what you were implying, after all, that is the popular thing to say these days.
Would you kindly stop putting words in my mouth? The point was that Abyss/Fredman bands etc. have "good" production by common standards, (i.e. accessible, clean, inoffensive. Read below + my "Nemesis Divina" post above for details) not that the bands themselves were necessarily "pussy crap." Even if I did think they were that's way beside the point.
SunlapseVertigo said:
wasn't whining at all. i was stating my opinion, which is exactly what the thread's topic is. so why don't you straighten that out first.
Sure. Maybe I was a bit harsh but the thing is that "Nattens Madrigal" is 1) an album that CONSTANTLY gets criticized for its production and that 2) it is one of the best examples of an album that is one with its production and that couldn't have sounded any other way without taking away from the experience. Therefore critique towards that particular production (and those of a lot of, but not all, other raw BM) bothers me a lot since it's such a dead giveaway that the speaker simply does not
get it.
SunlapseVertigo said:
but heres my question.... why should artists try to be as unaccessable as possible? as far as I'm concerned, they should just be focusing on making good music rather than trying to bother. Nattens Madrigal was obviously done that way on purpose, but why is a crap guitar sound "natural" and a better guitar sound not? they had to do some tweaking to some degree to get such a harsh sound, so its no more "natural" than any other guitar sound. Making something sound better (lets say in preproduction) doesn't necesarrily mean artists are trying to be more accesable (which in the eyes of many would be considered bad for whatever reason), they might just want to do what they think sounds the best for the album, so lets not start on the whole "making things more accesable" thing....
The thing with "Nattens Madrigal," as it seems you're already aware, is that Ulver made it sound that way on purpose. They had the budget and other means to record in any flashy studio they could have wanted, BUT they chose not to as it wouldn't have fit the music. Simple as that. You could argue that it is "terrible-sounding" but to these and many other ears it simply isn't. It is a sound that fits the lyrics and music and the overall concept of the album perfectly.
Ulver didn't exactly try to be inaccessible. Ulver simply tried (and succeeded) to make the production fit the music. The nature of the resulting harsh sound quite obviously means that it is initially inaccessible to the vast majority of people. This is when people, when they have not understood the nature of the album's beauty, drag out the old "urgh terrible production, shame on an album which has good riffs" argumentation, simply because the aesthetics of the album is something which is foreign to them, something they do not understand.
Inaccessibility should not be a goal in itself. Inaccessibility comes from utilizing esoteric technique or aesthetics.
For discussions like these (and I've gone through a few) I wish I had a copy of "Transilvanian Hunger" or "Nattens Madrigal" recorded in Abyss Studios with triggered drums and everything. Maybe then I could play it to people and they would understand. As for "Nattens Madrigal," as you seem to like the music (the music in itself isn't very esoteric,) I'd suggest reading the lyrics, the comments on the back of the booklet and then listen to the whole thing at night until it clicks. It is a rewarding album once understood.
![[0hr]Sunlapse](/data/avatars/l/12/12972.jpg?1086073981){kind=avatar}
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