Andy,James, PT Users:Analog Channel/Tape Emulators in Metal Music?

acorredor

acorredor

Still Learning
Sep 26, 2003
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Bogota, Colombia
www.audiotaller.com
What´s your opinion on this sort of plugins? Do you guys use them at all? Some people won´t mix in the box without Analog Channel emulation in the mix bus... do you guys use anything like that in the master/individual channels? What about tape emulators? any use for this kinda processors for heavy music mixing? Thanks a lot for your opinions. In case you use them, any tips/tricks are much appreciated.

Alejandro
 
I'm usually not mixing ITB much these days, but when I do, I have an Analog Channel or, more likely, a Crane Song Phoenix plugin on my 2-Bus. When used subtly, it really can liven up and just thicken the whole sound without getting too obnoxious or in the way. I don't believe in using plugins to get something to "sound analog," but these two ones seem to do something I consistently like on and in my mixes.
 
Andy Sneap said:
i use crane song on the way in
Click to expand...

Wow! That's a major tip for you guys that are paying attention.

I've actually never even seen this plug anywhere (didn't even realise that the Phoenix wasn't hardware until now), but after reading what it does I'd say that "on the way in" would be the obvious way to go. Very cool thing to know.

I think that I'd be afraid to ask what Dave O. asked, but since he did, I'd like to know as well...
 
metalkingdom said:
I've actually never even seen this plug anywhere (didn't even realise that the Phoenix wasn't hardware until now), but after reading what it does I'd say that "on the way in" would be the obvious way to go. Very cool thing to know.
Click to expand...
Just to clarify, he's talking about the tape emu on the Crane Song Spider, not the Pheonix plugin, is used on the way in.

Unless I'm totally stupid.
 
I'm pretty sure the hardware version on the spider is pretty much the same (if not exactly the same) as the Phoenix plug, and is applied after the A/D process. It is pretty handy to have it right in the hardware.

As far as my earlier question. I could always figure out that sorta stuff on my own when I get the unit. In fact, I'm sure I will. But sometimes it's nice to have a reference when learning a new piece of gear as in depth as the CS spider.
 
Yeah, I'm almost positive he's talking about the Spider Tape Emulation. I've used it once or twice, and it really was hit or miss for me. Definitely more subtle than the HEDD 192's tape emulation, but still noticeable. Worked well for drums and other transient-heavy sources. The Phoenix is definitely a subtler effect than the Empirical Labs Fatso, Spider, HEDD 192, and Analog Channel tape emulations, but it's really really useful for my (few) ITB mixes. Helps me get a lot closer to what I expect to hear from OTB mixes, which is what I'm used to. The McDSP Analog Channel works really well, but can definitely be too strong for some stuff, and can really do cool things to individual tracks as well. As far as acorredor's question about when I put the Phoenix in, I basically use it as I would a 2-Bus compressor, pretty much starting with it in or at least putting it in during the first hour, but I always find myself taking it in and out throughout the mix process to make sure it's doing something positive to the mix and not hiding something bad.
 
Yeah, I guess he probably is talking about the Spider's tape emulation. Nevertheless, the plug still seems interesting - and a more realistic option for me seeing as I ain't throwing down 8g's on pres in the near future. Yeah Dave, I know you're just looking for a head start with that question. Hope you get your Spider soon.

I fucked with the HEDD for a few months back in '98. Cranesong gave us one for a 6 month demo, and we used it in front of the 3800. It was cool at first, but once we got accustomed to it, it started sounding too extreme. I don't remember using the tape emu on it, but it was behind two A800's and a 6000E already.

When you say OTB mixing, are you talking about tape machine -> analog mixer or DAW -> analog mixer? I'm wondering because I don't see the Phoenix making anything about mixes done "in the box" sound more like a OTB mix. I mean, if you're talking about OTB with a 2'', then that makes more sense. This could probably be an entirely different thread, but the major difference between mixing entirely in a DAW and spreading the tracks out on a console is really about space and dimension. I think that plugs like these, when used on the mix buss, actually work against sounding more OTB. If you mix really, really hard (and really,really well) in the digital domain, you can get pretty close to it without using mix buss plugs and such. I don't think that most people will even know what I'm talking about, because it takes a lot of time in the studio, patience and attention to really make digital sound good. It comes a lot easier with analog.
 
metalkingdom said:
When you say OTB mixing, are you talking about tape machine -> analog mixer or DAW -> analog mixer? I'm wondering because I don't see the Phoenix making anything about mixes done "in the box" sound more like a OTB mix. I mean, if you're talking about OTB with a 2'', then that makes more sense. This could probably be an entirely different thread, but the major difference between mixing entirely in a DAW and spreading the tracks out on a console is really about space and dimension. I think that plugs like these, when used on the mix buss, actually work against sounding more OTB. If you mix really, really hard (and really,really well) in the digital domain, you can get pretty close to it without using mix buss plugs and such. I don't think that most people will even know what I'm talking about, because it takes a lot of time in the studio, patience and attention to really make digital sound good. It comes a lot easier with analog.
Click to expand...

Sorry, I should have been a little clearer. When I said that the Phoenix plug helped me get a sound closer to OTB, I didn't mean the space and depth, rather just the color that I'm used to from running signal through analog equipment. I mix to half or one inch tape 95% of the time(as well as a masterlink for a digital backup/safety/whatever copy), so I guess the effect that I'm getting from the Phoenix that I'm relating to OTB mixing in general also comes from my being used to tape, but I honestly hear the Phoenix plug's effect as more of an "analog emulator" when used in a certain way, not just a tape simulator, if you know what I mean. I entirely agree 100% with your points about OTB and ITB mixing, speaking as someone who does one or the other every day, and has very strong opinions about it himself.
 
yeah i mean the spider, and its just on very slightly, but it helps....very slightly lol. I like the plug in also though, you have to be real careful with it , especially if used on your mix bus.
 
Andy Sneap said:
I like the plug in also though, you have to be real careful with it , especially if used on your mix bus.
Click to expand...

Definitely true. A little goes a long way, and it definitely has a learning curve as far as when to say enough of what at the time may sound like a good thing.
 
the phoenix has definetly shown up on some of our mixes. sometimes on the mix buss...sometimes on anything from guitars to overheads. its a great plug when used right.
 
Anyone here ever use the DUY Analog Bundle? I've tried them a few times and sometimes they have done some cool things to my tracks, but most of the time they just don't do much for me. Just curious to see if anyone else has come across them or used them.
 
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