J-Dubya 777
It NEVER ends
I endorse J-Man's post... I hope I never have to use it, but it's there if I need it. Rather be judged by 12, than carried by 6....:Smokedev:
Another day, another shooting. Welcome to America.
- Thread starter The Colorado Kid
- Start date
nailz
Member
Excellent counterpoint.
I think it works as well as telling someone who says "No one should be allowed to have a kilo of cocaine in their bedroom, but I have a kilo of cocaine in my bedroom" to get rid of it.
The issue with guns is the public safety factor. Less than 100 years ago we could buy machine guns and silencers, and hell.. .even grenades and shit...
That all changed in 1934 (and was amended again sometime in the 60s). All the gun advocates don't want to talk about the effect this powerful legislation had on gun violence (yes folks, it was even worse back then).
state laws supercede fed laws, and some states have simply outlawed automatic weapons and silencers, as opposed to the "oppressive government policies." In most states one can still legally obtain these items. The process takes between 90-120 days, and there are forms, interviews, the FBI runs a background check, and of course there are the taxes.
From what I've read online since 1934 only one legally obtained automatic weapon has been involved in the commission of a crime.
As I wrote earlier, I like guns, and own a few. They have a functional value, and can be quite useful (we shot a coon when we tore down one of the buildings on our property, and I believe I'll have to shoot another one in the next few weeks, though I'll try the live release first). Owning them carries great responsibility. My guns are locked up, and the ammunition is stored in another location. I don't worry about anyone breaking into my house. I have a 90lb dog and an excellent security system. Those are far greater deterrents to crime than any gun. They're always on watch. A criminal won't catch them sleeping, or taking a healthy shit (while reading and posting on facebook).
I don't live in fear, 'cause that's not living. Fear is the little death that cripples you; it steals your quality of life.
Fuck that.
That all changed in 1934 (and was amended again sometime in the 60s). All the gun advocates don't want to talk about the effect this powerful legislation had on gun violence (yes folks, it was even worse back then).
state laws supercede fed laws, and some states have simply outlawed automatic weapons and silencers, as opposed to the "oppressive government policies." In most states one can still legally obtain these items. The process takes between 90-120 days, and there are forms, interviews, the FBI runs a background check, and of course there are the taxes.
From what I've read online since 1934 only one legally obtained automatic weapon has been involved in the commission of a crime.
As I wrote earlier, I like guns, and own a few. They have a functional value, and can be quite useful (we shot a coon when we tore down one of the buildings on our property, and I believe I'll have to shoot another one in the next few weeks, though I'll try the live release first). Owning them carries great responsibility. My guns are locked up, and the ammunition is stored in another location. I don't worry about anyone breaking into my house. I have a 90lb dog and an excellent security system. Those are far greater deterrents to crime than any gun. They're always on watch. A criminal won't catch them sleeping, or taking a healthy shit (while reading and posting on facebook).
I don't live in fear, 'cause that's not living. Fear is the little death that cripples you; it steals your quality of life.
Fuck that.
Bryant
Mr. Sleepy
Everyone is snaking around the problem here. Guns have changed over the years, but they were still just as lethal 30 years ago as they are today. Parenting is what has failed, not gun control. I can guarantee you that MY children will never shoot another individual in their lifetime, unless it is in self defense or is a part of their job (police, military etc. should one or both decide to go into that field.) I know this because they are being raised to be responsible citizens.
Unfortunately, "parenting laws" are not something that could be easily invoked, so many people want to attempt to put a band-aid on things and enact gun control laws. As others have stated, what happens with that is that the law abiding citizens receive the brunt of that "punishment." The criminals aren't going to give up their guns willingly.
Having said all of that, I don't know what the answer is to this problem. If I did, I probably would have chosen a different career path. I do, however, feel that taking guns away from law abiding citizens is not going to help matters. I can tell you that my wife and I (especially my wife) are doing our part by teaching our children manners, the values of hard work, and being responsible American citizens and stewards of the earth. This is not something I am boasting about. This is simply MY JOB as a parent. If others did their job, we wouldn't be having this sort of epidemic.
Unfortunately, "parenting laws" are not something that could be easily invoked, so many people want to attempt to put a band-aid on things and enact gun control laws. As others have stated, what happens with that is that the law abiding citizens receive the brunt of that "punishment." The criminals aren't going to give up their guns willingly.
Having said all of that, I don't know what the answer is to this problem. If I did, I probably would have chosen a different career path. I do, however, feel that taking guns away from law abiding citizens is not going to help matters. I can tell you that my wife and I (especially my wife) are doing our part by teaching our children manners, the values of hard work, and being responsible American citizens and stewards of the earth. This is not something I am boasting about. This is simply MY JOB as a parent. If others did their job, we wouldn't be having this sort of epidemic.
So far this year there have been 12 mass shootings nationwide in which more than five people were killed.
Another Day, Another Shooting
Another Day, Another Shooting
Justin G
Member
Man, it sure is good that cooler heads prevailed and no new gun laws were passed after Newtown. Otherwise the results could have been tragic.
Mardoch
Defender of the Universe
Man, it sure is good that cooler heads prevailed and no new gun laws were passed after Newtown. Otherwise the results could have been tragic.
He has a point though. Emotional lawmaking is how you get the PATRIOT ACT, one of the worst laws passed in recent history.
Justin G
Member
Expanded background checks and closing loopholes was hardly emotional legislation though, and even that watered-down idea was shot down.
Mardoch
Defender of the Universe
Right, and I'm not arguing against that. I was only talking about the kneejerk legislation portion.
Keir
Member
Problem is the opposite is happening. Any rational discussion of the issue is shot down as "politicizing" the issue. Never mind that we want our public officials to look for solutions to this problem. (At least, I do. The NRA seems to think we are all better off if we are all armed and sort it out that way.)
Mardoch
Defender of the Universe
I'm a pro-personal interpretation of the 2nd amendment guy. I also believe we can do better at preventing this kind of bullshit. It's a tricky balance of rights, though.
There is a good argument to not rush in to legislate in the wake of a tragedy. The problem with cooling off is that it slips away until next time. So there's never a good time according to the politicians.
As for the NRA, they suck. I love guns, I love shooting, I want nothing to do with the NRA.
We need tighter restrictions and far more accountability when failures occur.
- If a parent buys a gun for their child, and said child shoots another kid, that parent needs to be charged as an accessory.
- If a legal gun owner has their unsecured weapons stolen they should be fined, and held accountable (partially) for whatever actions occur with their firearms.
This is beyond ridiculous. I like guns, they're fun to shoot, but they're a serious responsibility. If your sole reason for buying a gun is to protect you from the boogeyman (whether that be some imagined life and death struggle or the silly government conspiracy nuts) then you need help. Go study silat and learn how to quickly end a dangerous situation.
- If a parent buys a gun for their child, and said child shoots another kid, that parent needs to be charged as an accessory.
- If a legal gun owner has their unsecured weapons stolen they should be fined, and held accountable (partially) for whatever actions occur with their firearms.
This is beyond ridiculous. I like guns, they're fun to shoot, but they're a serious responsibility. If your sole reason for buying a gun is to protect you from the boogeyman (whether that be some imagined life and death struggle or the silly government conspiracy nuts) then you need help. Go study silat and learn how to quickly end a dangerous situation.
Exploding Ned
Member
Two thought on this...
1.) The aim of the vast majority of gun control advocates is that the mentally ill have no access to guns. Ever. And no gun show sales, straw man sales, internet sales etc. And a nationwide gun registry with minimum 3 days waiting period. And that gun owners be tested regularly for competence with their weapons. No one I know involved in getting sensible gun reforms passed wants to take all guns away from legal owners. We need dialogue on the problem, not stifling of dialogue or misinformation. Yes, Chicago has no guns policy, but gun runners are bringing them in from Indiana. That must be stopped, and some progress is being made. And saying criminals won't follow the laws is like saying there should be no laws, since criminals won't follow them. There will always be a small percentage who will break the rules. That doesn't mean we should just throw our hands up in the air and give up trying to fix the problems.
2.) These state guvs and legislatures who have basically gutted mental health care for the poor should re-fund the programs. No excuse for taking money away from programs that have proven results in deterring violence.
My crusade til I croak off is for common sense gun law reforms. My step daughter was murdered by a wacko who should have never had a gun to start with. So I feel fully justified in my mission. Not looking for an ounce of sympathy here, just understand the problems need to be addressed. And sensible dialogue is a good start.
1.) The aim of the vast majority of gun control advocates is that the mentally ill have no access to guns. Ever. And no gun show sales, straw man sales, internet sales etc. And a nationwide gun registry with minimum 3 days waiting period. And that gun owners be tested regularly for competence with their weapons. No one I know involved in getting sensible gun reforms passed wants to take all guns away from legal owners. We need dialogue on the problem, not stifling of dialogue or misinformation. Yes, Chicago has no guns policy, but gun runners are bringing them in from Indiana. That must be stopped, and some progress is being made. And saying criminals won't follow the laws is like saying there should be no laws, since criminals won't follow them. There will always be a small percentage who will break the rules. That doesn't mean we should just throw our hands up in the air and give up trying to fix the problems.
2.) These state guvs and legislatures who have basically gutted mental health care for the poor should re-fund the programs. No excuse for taking money away from programs that have proven results in deterring violence.
My crusade til I croak off is for common sense gun law reforms. My step daughter was murdered by a wacko who should have never had a gun to start with. So I feel fully justified in my mission. Not looking for an ounce of sympathy here, just understand the problems need to be addressed. And sensible dialogue is a good start.
Exploding Ned
Member
Yep. NRA has basically turned into nothing more than the biggest gun salesman in America.
http://www.businessinsider.com/gun-industry-funds-nra-2013-1
J-Dubya 777
It NEVER ends
I'm not an NRA guy either, they have their good points, but I also have no problem with SOME of the changes in the gun laws.
I would like to hear the reasoning behind this:
"- If a legal gun owner has their unsecured weapons stolen they should be fined, and held accountable (partially) for whatever actions occur with their firearms. "
I have 3 weapons hidden, & ready to go in various locations in my residence. Unless you can prove gross negligence, like leaving an unsecure weapon on a porch, balcony, deck, you'll never see what you're looking for here.....So if someone breaks into my house, and steals my guns, and kills someone, that's my fault? The onus in a case like that is 100% with the person who stole the firearm, and perpetrated any random act of violence.
Should the same apply to knives, axes, baseball bats?
I would like to hear the reasoning behind this:
"- If a legal gun owner has their unsecured weapons stolen they should be fined, and held accountable (partially) for whatever actions occur with their firearms. "
I have 3 weapons hidden, & ready to go in various locations in my residence. Unless you can prove gross negligence, like leaving an unsecure weapon on a porch, balcony, deck, you'll never see what you're looking for here.....So if someone breaks into my house, and steals my guns, and kills someone, that's my fault? The onus in a case like that is 100% with the person who stole the firearm, and perpetrated any random act of violence.
Should the same apply to knives, axes, baseball bats?
Exploding Ned
Member
I never claim to have all the answers, so I can't answer your question. Worth discussing though. I do think that parents should be held accountable if their kid finds their improperly stored gun and shoots themself. To me, that's gun accountability 101.
J-Dubya 777
It NEVER ends
KingsGene
God of Thunder
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