Anyone of you has helped bands to do prepreoductions?

[::XeS::]

Hi
As the title says, anyone of you helped some bands to do pre-productions? And how much do you charge?

p.s.
Shitty english for me on this thread's title Sorry

 

[rcg]

PM sent

 

[::XeS::]

I think you have misendertood. Probably I have to help a band with the preproduction before the recording, and I ask if someone has helped bands with the preprod.

 

[AStacy2]

Yeah, I do this sort of thing all the time. It really makes a huge difference if you're producing the album. A lot of times I'll throw everyone in the same room and run all the stringed insturments on a Pod or similar and have the bands play through their entire album monitoring everything on headphones. I'll just do a quick drum mic setup with only 2 OH mics and all the drums miced individually. Then we'll have the band come out see what works, what doesn't and change things accordingly. It really doesn't take that long and it helps me do everything quicker once I know what everyone is playing at any given time.

 

[::XeS::]

Do you charge something or do you include this time on the final price?

 

[AStacy2]

Yeah, of course I charge per hour. But if you think about it, you can set everything up in 1-2hours with everything like that and a band that's pretty well rehearsed can play through their album in 1-2 hours. Now, figuring out how to make each song the best it can be could take a while but...for that price it's stupid not to do it in my opinion, especially if you're making an album which is gonna stick with the band/engineer/producer/mixer for a while.



Obviously some bands won't be able to do this because they either don't have the songs written yet or they haven't practiced enough. If either is the case I'd say make sure you know you're getting paid enough to deal with this. If the songs aren't written don't freak out, maybe you'll be able to help write them and make them better. If the band hasn't practiced enough then you gotta figure out how to get the takes.

 

[Force666]

The last 3 (of the 5) projects i've done have involved all the preproduction.

Grab one of the guitars players and just chill with him and get the clicks sorted out. It's so much easier to do with a guitar in his hands ready to go.

There's no way getting around this being a pain in the ass (kinda like drum editing) and it taking a while.

You should get payed for the time to do it, but you have to explain to the band that spending this time doing the pre-pro will make the actual recording go much quicker, and sound much more professional at the end.

It will take just as much time if you just record off the bat and have to spend the extra time editing to no grid and figuring out what works for the song or not.

Sometimes if someone in the band has some decent brains, you can teach them how to work out the clicks and bring you some midi files and just import them into the session. Just convince them, this is how the pros work. They'll appreciate it in the end.

 

[AStacy2]

Whatever you do, DO NOT trust a band to work out click tracks or make guide guitars tracks EVER. The song tempo and the timing of the guide tracks are way too important to have anyone but you doing it.


If for some reason you think the band can accomplish this...make sure you get the tracks long enough ahead of time for you to listen to them and make sure that they're good enough for you to base your ENTIRE record around.

 

[AdamWathan]

Yeah I was always very savvy as a musician when it came to the preproduction process even before I really got into audio engineering, so I would always have demos done with programmed drums and all guitar parts and all the proper tempos for the drummer to play along to when we went to the studio... I realize now that I was an engineers wet dream as far as clients go and you cannot expect anyone in any band to have half a brain :/ Ughhhh....

 

[Force666]

Whatever you do, DO NOT trust a band to work out click tracks or make guide guitars tracks EVER. The song tempo and the timing of the guide tracks are way too important to have anyone but you doing it.


If for some reason you think the band can accomplish this...make sure you get the tracks long enough ahead of time for you to listen to them and make sure that they're good enough for you to base your ENTIRE record around.

Wow. I thought they were the bands songs. So you know the timing and how to play the guitar tracks better than the band? Must be nice.
It's the BAND'S album, it's just your paycheck (if you're getting paid) and a reference of your work for your portfolio.

I'm with Forbidden on this one. I'm the same way. And I would go as far to say 8/10 bands have atleast 1 member that works in some way on recording on their computer for demos or whatever. That's when you're lucky. Getting the drummer to practice to the clicks for a few weeks is another story.

 

[Chris_P_Critter]

Yeah I was always very savvy as a musician when it came to the preproduction process even before I really got into audio engineering, so I would always have demos done with programmed drums and all guitar parts and all the proper tempos for the drummer to play along to when we went to the studio... I realize now that I was an engineers wet dream as far as clients go and you cannot expect anyone in any band to have half a brain :/ Ughhhh....

Wow. I thought they were the bands songs. So you know the timing and how to play the guitar tracks better than the band? Must be nice.
It's the BAND'S album, it's just your paycheck (if you're getting paid) and a reference of your work for your portfolio.

I'm with Forbidden on this one. I'm the same way. And I would go as far to say 8/10 bands have atleast 1 member that works in some way on recording on their computer for demos or whatever. That's when you're lucky. Getting the drummer to practice to the clicks for a few weeks is another story.

+1 and +1

 

[AStacy2]

Wow. I thought they were the bands songs. So you know the timing and how to play the guitar tracks better than the band? Must be nice.
It's the BAND'S album, it's just your paycheck (if you're getting paid) and a reference of your work for your portfolio.

I'm with Forbidden on this one. I'm the same way. And I would go as far to say 8/10 bands have atleast 1 member that works in some way on recording on their computer for demos or whatever. That's when you're lucky. Getting the drummer to practice to the clicks for a few weeks is another story.

I think you took my post the wrong way bro. Since we're taking about doing some form of producing here, I'm assuming that the band has already put enough trust in you to make sure everything is perfect for their record. I've tried to have bands make guides/clicks and it's never worked out as good as making them myself. Also, I can usually make them faster, edit breakdowns ect... and obviously make better sounding ones than the bands which can help everyone get more amped up for recording.


I'm just speaking from my past experiences though. I've heard "Dude, that guitar is off time, I'm playing it right the guide is wrong" too many times and I've heard "Dude, we play this song like 10BPM slower and I'm playing it right" too many times. All I'm saying is that its usually worth the extra effort to make sure everything is perfect in the beginning. Like I said, if you think the band can accomplish this tell them to send the guides/clicks to you a week ahead of time so you can double check them and make sure everything is perfect.

 

[Z3R0]

I'm with AStacy2 on this one... taking the extra effort in the beginning with help EVERYTHING out in the long run.

I usually setup the clicks and have a guitarists do scratch tracks for the drummer, then have the guitarists record the final guitars to the final drums later. It's just been the easiest way to go about it. But ya gotta watch CLOSE and make sure they stick to the click, or you'll be pulling your hair out later...

 

[PhilR]

I'm working on the pre-prod for my own band at the moment. I actually programmed all my bass parts in PowerTab and used this as the basis for the click. Then for the last 2 rehearsals I had our drummer play along with this and tweaked the tempo's of the various sections of each song until I was happy he was hitting his groove and not pulling or pushing against the beat.

It's strange how minor variations in tempo can really make a song and a lot of bands don't really understand this at all. One of our songs ended up with about 7 tempo changes, all ranged within about 3bpm but that's just what felt right in term of the song flow.

 

[Suicide_As_Alibi]

I think pre-production can be especially important if you're recording your own band. I joined a band just before Christmas, and in February we started recording. I asked the guitarist/songwriter to have all his parts/overdubs/vocal harmonies/etc. worked out beforehand, and he didn't do it - and once we got to recording he started wanting to add bits and try out new ideas. It just drags on and on, and because it's your own band they tend to think you can endlessly add and remove stuff.

Getting clicks worked out with the engineer in advance is a good idea - it gives your drummer a chance to practise with them as well. With the same band, the guitarist did clicks and guide guitars on his own. The first two were ready in advance and were absolutely perfect, but the other two he didn't get done until the day before we recorded drums (in a studio, with another engineer). Half way through one of them the guitars drifted off the click until it was almost perfectly off-beat - it was almost worth it for the look of panic on the drummers face as he was playing to it though

Steve

 

[Ermz]

How many of you guys get the entire band worked into pre-production?

Commonly it seems to involve sitting there with the main guitarist/songwriter and putting down all the tempos, markers and guide tracks. But do you go the extra mile and check whether the drum, bass and vocal parts work too? That's my issue at the moment. How much is 'too much' when dealing with bands that can spend that budget elsewhere?

Also, do you just blitz through the tracks in order for the band to put them down quickly, or do you put emphasis on how tight the takes are, so that the band know what it will take in the real sessions?

 

[Machinated]

im at the point now where im going to request to do preproduction with every band i work with.

im going to go right in and work through the songs, get them up to scratch, get the drum fills in the right place and 'written' into the song so they are not made up. basically just making sure the quality of the song is at its maximum before its recorded. fee wise, ill probably doing it at something like half my usual rate for recording mostly temporarily to persuade bands to actually go through with doing it.

 

[::XeS::]

For preproduction I mean what Machine did on lamb of god "sacrament" dvd. Be sit with the band that plays, check if the parts fit well togheter, discuss about the tempo, etc...
Putting down tempos, markers ang eventually guide tracks is a little part of preprod, and I think that a band with a minimum of seriousness should come in the studio already knowing tempos.
Anyway on this thread I mean the first description

 

[PhilR]

How many of you guys get the entire band worked into pre-production?

In my own particular circumstances I've only had one of our guitarists to work with as the other has been tied up with work (one of the main reasons we've been spending our rehearsal time this way). I made sure that our drummer was comfortable with the click tracks first and foremost as the rhythm section forms the foundation of the track (hell I wish I could just keep the MIDI bass tracks! Ain't no damn way I can play that clean and tight!) I had our guitarist run through as well. He found it a little faster than normal in parts, but nothing beyong his ability. The hardest parts will be tracked in sections anyway.

 

[Eduardo Apolonia]

I always do pre-production.
The way I do it is to record a rehearsal so that I can listen to the songs (and the band too).
I often see that band members are too focused on their instrument and not on the song, sometimes making the song worst because of their instrument part.
After listening it for a few times I'll write down all suggestions I have about the song structures, riffs for possible changes for the better (in my opinion of course).
After that I will go to the band rehearsal or get them in my studio and we all discuss the possible changes that I suggest.
And when I'm recording normally some changes are done, mainly riffs and vocals,

This makes a HUGE difference in the final product.

If you are producing I think that it is inevitable that you do pre-production. At least for me it is