what do you do about bands that....

brianhood

brianhood

No Care Ever
Jul 12, 2008
1,543
16
38
Nashville, TN
www.facebook.com\456recordings
...changes the amount of songs they want to record last minute.
:yell:

I charge a flat fee per song, and i'm sure a few more of you guys do this for various reasons. Whether you charge this way or not, this should apply to you guys.

Basically a band books enough studio time to record 5 or 6 songs weeks in advance. Then less than a weeks notice, they decide they only want to record 2 or 3 songs. Of course this takes up less days in your studio, but it's too late to book those left over days with another band. So your income for the week is cut in half.

I realize this just comes with the job, but i was wondering what you guys do to avoid this. Any policies you have or things you may tell the bands in advance that book with you?

This has happened to me several times since i started doing this full time in January, and it's pretty frustrating. I've started making bands send it deposits to book dates(mainly to keep bands from canceling for stupid reasons), but this still happens with those bands.
 
Well, basically, you sell your time, not sound producing. You should make them sign contracts with the amount of TIME you will spend. And not in the contract you should tell them that one song = I don't know, 1 day. So 1 song = 1 day so 5 songs = 5 days. You don't sell the sound producing, you sell your time, so you want time on the contract, not the number of songs. So you told the band 1 song = 1 day and they want 5 songs so that will take 5 days so in the contract it should not be written 5 songs for amount of money X, it should be 5 days for X amount of money. And because of your very busy schedule the bands who sign the contract have one month to cancel or change the contract before the contract starts. And if they are lucky enough that you can squeeze those 5 days between 2 projects in less then a month, then they CANNOT change nothing. And of course you charge per day, not per songs!

I'm sure there could be hundreds of examples, but right now I'm thinking of a ski instructor. Let's say I take vacations and go to Aspen and I only want one week of ski lessons. I will need to "make a reservation" for the instructor, and someone will ask me how many days I want those lessons. They will not ask me how many times I want to go down the mountain. And if I ask for 5 days and when I get there I only want 2, without any notice, chances are I will still have to pay for the 5 days. Are they assholes? I don't think so.

Let's say I order a large pizza but once it gets to my home I realized I only wanted a medium... what do you think will happen? :P
 
brianhood said:
Any policies you have or things you may tell the bands in advance that book with you?
Click to expand...

I have a term in my freelancer live-engineering contract that says something along the lines that excluding force majeure cases, I will get a full fee for the gigs that get cancelled within 7 days and 50% from the reservations cancelled within 30 days. I would maybe change it to 60 and 90 days with studio work because it is a lot harder to find clients for the unused days.
 
that all seems pretty ideal for the engineers benefit(which is awesome), but it doesn't seems realistic. I've been through the whole studio thing many times with many different engineers from the bands side of things, and i've never worked with(or even heard of for that matter) an engineer that required you to sign any contract to record there.
i'm struggling enough as it is to keep a steady flow of bands coming in here(especially being as new on the scene as i am), but i would hate to scare off potentially problem free bands because of contracts being involved.

I guess this is the benefit of doing lots of label work(much more stable)
if only i were at that level:cry:
 
You should always do a written (and signed) contract that handles all possibilities, otherwise sooner or later you will run into problems with disputes. When you have all things written down, you're much much better off legally.
 
here's my setup

charge a day rate (eight hours, usually)

require a certain amount of days per song (two or so, make it something that won't piss you off haha)

require a 1/3 total price down payment to secure the dates

if the band screws you over, you keep the down payment (noted up front, that its non refundable unless something crazy happens, then you'll gladly reschedule, keeping the down payment)

if the band shows up, but decides they want to do less than originally planned, then they pay you less, and you get a few days off (but try and keep a back list of bands that are ready to jump on the wagon when a cancellation occurs)
 
fight them hahaha brian is this the the screamo ish band? (fucking hate that term ) you were talking about?
 
I think this is the pitfall of having a band "pay per song". I do it the same way, though. This isn't my main source of income, however, so I don't mind if they do less songs, or if i get paid less.

Usually, what I do is talk with the band up front about what they want. I also listen to any material they currently have...If they are not tight, I know I'll be doing more "clean up", if they are a good band, I know I won't spend as much time fixing things...So I charge accordingly...More for the crappy band, less for the better.

I usually give the clients a sliding pay scale based on number of songs, asking what would be the least they'd do and what would be the most.

usually, I price out for 2 up to 8 songs. Full albums get a different rate as well. I price each project a little differently based on how much work I estimate I'll put in.

I get paid 100% up front, unless it's a band I'm friends with, and know I'll get paid.

Seems to work out well...But, like I said, if my session time is cut short, I don't mind.

Aside from a busy AE, I don't know how many acts you could line up to rush into the studio if someone pulls out early. Might just be a case of sucking it up and losing some work/money. I guess getting paid for 2 songs is better than no pay at all? Or, I guess you could cut the band a deal for less money per song if they do more, which in the long run could net you more money for that week's work?

i.e. 2 songs @ 200 a piece would be 400, but 4 songs at 150 a piece would be 600...more work for less pay, but at least you income would be up 50% over doing nothing.
 
Don't ever charge by the song and don't ever work without contracts. It *will* come to haunt you in the end.

Contracts aren't as scary as they may sound. Here's how it works:

1) Don't call them " contracts", but label them "production agreement" or "booking agreement"
2) Send them to the band right when they contact you first along with your rates. This way it will look more "normal" (which it is, really).
3) Make everything sound very short and to the point. Write things like "The studio day rate is XYZ" and avoid bullshit legalese like "notwithstanding the aforementioned". Nobody wants to read that and it makes the paper more contract-like. Maybe even add funky/cartoony/rocknroll-graphics for more "musician-appeal" ...
4) Send along a sheet that details all the possible costs with a table where they can enter "days: ___ at studio day rate XYZ = _______ $" and write something like "no hidden costs! calculate the final costs of your recording with this handy PRODUCTION BUDGET CALCULATOR". Make sure to add all possible costs there: rental of equipment, mixing, blah blah
5) Make sure that this is signed with both the bandname and name & address of a bandmember (in case they decide to change their name later).
6) Charge up-front! At least 50%!
7) Don't agree on force majeure cancellations. Keep the deposit and reschedule. Otherwise the band will come up with the most HIDEOUS excuses why they couldn't show up.

Trust me, you'll need this contract. People expect contracts and papers to be signed. It's just that the artsy types and the non-business types (like engineers) are too shy to even come up with them.
 
smy1 said:
Don't ever charge by the song and don't ever work without contracts. It *will* come to haunt you in the end.

Contracts aren't as scary as they may sound. Here's how it works:

1) Don't call them " contracts", but label them "production agreement" or "booking agreement"
2) Send them to the band right when they contact you first along with your rates. This way it will look more "normal" (which it is, really).
3) Make everything sound very short and to the point. Write things like "The studio day rate is XYZ" and avoid bullshit legalese like "notwithstanding the aforementioned". Nobody wants to read that and it makes the paper more contract-like. Maybe even add funky/cartoony/rocknroll-graphics for more "musician-appeal" ...
4) Send along a sheet that details all the possible costs with a table where they can enter "days: ___ at studio day rate XYZ = _______ $" and write something like "no hidden costs! calculate the final costs of your recording with this handy PRODUCTION BUDGET CALCULATOR". Make sure to add all possible costs there: rental of equipment, mixing, blah blah
5) Make sure that this is signed with both the bandname and name & address of a bandmember (in case they decide to change their name later).
6) Charge up-front! At least 50%!
7) Don't agree on force majeure cancellations. Keep the deposit and reschedule. Otherwise the band will come up with the most HIDEOUS excuses why they couldn't show up.

Trust me, you'll need this contract. People expect contracts and papers to be signed. It's just that the artsy types and the non-business types (like engineers) are too shy to even come up with them.
Click to expand...


Nice post. My question is, how do you make this flexible? A lot of the time I find bands booking extra time, or cancelling bookings etc. How do you take a 50% deposit of time you're not sure about? Say you book in 3 days for drums initially, but the band need and want to book 5. You've only taken 50% for those 3 days, how do you amend your contract to get the deposit for the extra 2?

Mixing and such is easy as I charge per song and per revision. But it's the charges subject to time that can get a bit hazy.
 
Moonlapse said:
Nice post. My question is, how do you make this flexible? A lot of the time I find bands booking extra time, or cancelling bookings etc. How do you take a 50% deposit of time you're not sure about? Say you book in 3 days for drums initially, but the band need and want to book 5. You've only taken 50% for those 3 days, how do you amend your contract to get the deposit for the extra 2?

Mixing and such is easy as I charge per song and per revision. But it's the charges subject to time that can get a bit hazy.
Click to expand...

I know Jamie King requires 100% deposit up front(based on the estimated time needed), and he refunds any money for time that wasn't used.
 
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