Those that record other bands/people...what do you guys do?

[LSD-Studio]

i'm not going to post my actual charges... as they can often differ project to project, and anyway, it's my own business... but i will say that even the lowest paying job i've done in recent times has earned me more than Aaron's quote for the 12 song project he mentioned...... elmuchocescadawg has it exactly right when he says essentially that bands that would complain about something more than $50 a song, such as the ones crosstalk mentioned local to his area, are not worth the time... and to be honest this is true even if they DO have good gear and are talented and well rehearsed...it's just not worth the time for anyone that is beyond the initial learning stages. if you have developed any appreciable level of skill as an engineer/mixer/producer at all, then $50 should be closer to your hourly rate, NOT your "per song rate"....if you are charging this kind of rate because you are still learning and you have to go that cheap, or even work free, in order to get bands to let you practice and learn on their material, then so be it... but $50/song for anyone with any skill and experience is a joke, and it will backfire on you..... first of all, you will go broke at those rates... second, you will not get any respect for charging so low... the bottom line is that if you don't think enough of your abilities to charge a decent price for your services no one else will think much of them either. think small, stay small.

true!

studios around here are soo fuckung cheap but 50$ a song is still far from the cheapest one over here.

see it like this:
for that money you have to work faster to not die starving.
your work will suffer!

if you plan like 4 weeks for an album (that's still not very much for recording, editing, mix and master but pretty much what I settle for atm) you gotta pay your bills, buy new gear PAY FOR GEAR YOU BOUGHT IN THE PAST, pay your rent, food, ADVERTISING! etc....
no way with 50$ a song.

 

[James Murphy]

true!

studios around here are soo fuckung cheap but 50$ a song is still far from the cheapest one over here.

see it like this:
for that money you have to work faster to not die starving.
your work will suffer!

if you plan like 4 weeks for an album (that's still not very much for recording, editing, mix and master but pretty much what I settle for atm) you gotta pay your bills, buy new gear PAY FOR GEAR YOU BOUGHT IN THE PAST, pay your rent, food, ADVERTISING! etc....
no way with 50$ a song.

those guys already explained that they are still learning and this is basically why they only ask that much Lasse...

but still, there's an underlying problem.... if you don't specify that you are so cheap because you are either a "student" still or because you're just a hobbyist.

 

[James Murphy]

It's a quality of gear to price ratio, not quality of work to price ratio around here.

what, you live on Bizarro World?

I doubt seriously that good musicians and songwriters who take themselves seriously in Auburn NY actually think that it's smart to pay top dollar for a studio with good gear and peanuts for an engineer with a good ear.

 

[Loren Littlejohn]

what, you live on Bizarro World?

(pictures that are awsome)

I doubt seriously that good musicians and songwriters who take themselves seriously in Auburn NY actually think that it's smart to pay top dollar for a studio with good gear and peanuts for an engineer with a good ear.

No basically I'm saying that you have to scenarios:

Engineer A with home studio at $12.50 and hour using cheap gear and get get good sounding shit out of it.

Engineer B with pro studio at $55 an hour using pro tools HD systems with all kinds of vintage compressors, limiter, mic preamps etc again getting good sounding shit out of it.

Who do you think bands go with?

You bet your ass I would charge more if my gear was more up to par, I had a place to record, and time to do it.

 

[Executioner213]

Ok, I wanna bump this in a way.....

How many of you are willing to go to the band to record them (for some, I understand it is not by will but by no other choice). If so, how do you go about this? Here's my fucked up issue:

I work graveyard shift (with traveling to work, I'm gone to the world from 9pm-7am). I have Mondays and Tuesdays off...the worst days off possible. I had originally been telling people that I can come to them, but I would like compensation for gas to get there...and if I have to take the day off from work to record them (which is likely with my schedule), that I need to be compensated with $100 a day (about $12.50/hr, which is close to what I make at my job anyways). I was offering the "get me this and I'll record you: it's negotiable" scenario but it seems that I'm not getting any replies afterwards.

So...assuming the band is 3 hours away (Montana is a big state), meaning it would cost me about $125 to get there for gas;
I had to take a Friday and Saturday off from work, so to make up the money I would miss from being at work = $200
They have 4 songs they want to record for thier demo, at an assumed rate of $100/song = $400
Would you pay $750, give or take, for someone to come record your 4 song demo from 3 hours away?

I had asked for, in this case, a SM7 ($350) or the full set of DDrum triggers that I would require (a total of 8 triggers...2 kick, snare, 5 toms for about $360), and to be compensated for gas, and to be paid for taking time off of work. TECHNICALLY, it would be about $40-50 cheaper if these guys would buy me the gear instead of pay per song, but here I sit....

Opinions?

 

[dontletmedrown]

From what you've told us, your job has terrible hours and the musicians in your area do not take their shit seriously enough to lay down cash for a good recording. Sounds like you might need to move. Have you ever considered moving closer to one of the major music hubs: LA, NY, Nashville? You are making $100 a day at your current job. You can make that at almost any dead-end job in LA/NY/Nash.

 

[Executioner213]

Long story, but yeah I have thought of it. I just cannot do it. It's not even remotely possible at the moment.

I grew up in Tucson, so I lament having to move away from there in '01 as I feel a lot of my opportunities got slammed shut. I'll be stuck here at least a couple more years, and I'd like to be able to make the best of the scenario. Since I can't just afford to buy the equipment (or else I'd just move), I figure I would do some recordings to get that equipment. The town I live in, I might as well be in the backwoods of Alaska because nobody here really does anything. The next nearest towns are an hour away. After that, about 3 hours away.

Martriden recorded thier shit in Denver with Otero, and I could only gamble that a big factor of that is because Montana sucks.

 

[everybody's x]

these rates are definitely relative to where you are. missouri/kansas has a low cost of living (because there's nothing to do here).
Point is, my rates are low, people around the country would balk at them BUT you have to consider that a 3000 square foot home in kansas city is less than 200k where it would be $650k in Florida or a million in NYC. I imagine montana's cost of living is even lower. Lower costs equal lower pay. The big SSL rooms here are getting $60/hr.
I'm getting around $350 a day give or take. Take taxes,accountants,maintenance,adverts,lawyers and the fact that I'm only about 75% booked, well, let's just say it beats farming. I don't even want to know my hourly rate, because it would make me get a real job. (ha ha)
Now I am a professional, meaning I have a tax ID and I am a real business. As far as skill level, well I ain't James and therefore I don't make or charge what James charges. So the "professional" tag may be misleading, you won't find me on allmusic (yet) but I've heard guys on here with an mbox and a 57 school me. I have worked on a per song basis @ $200/song, I prefer the day rate obviously.
I'm rambling.
Anyway, make it worth your time. Personally I think $50/song is shameful, if they don't respect their own music enough to give it more than that. Not a reflection on you guys charging that but the devaluing of the art in general. You need talent and skills to do this stuff, it really isn't the gear, anybody can buy an mbox. Good luck.

 

[Kenny Lee]

Decent thread I almost forgot about. $50 a tune is insane I wouldn't publicly advertise that anywhere. Why? Well, I know a few people who's tunes average... AVERAGE 8- 12 minutes Loooooongg. Do you know how long that is in studio time? Even if the band came in and aced their takes ... it'd be:
1. Around 60- ? minutes setuping up the drums and getting them mic'd and all to agree on a great sound before doing the actual tunes take. My Buds recorded with a BIG time engineer and they spent 4 days on the snare sound. YES, 4 days. I think it was around $800 a day there. :zombie:
But... back to us average folk
2. At least on average 45-60 minutes setup time for the guitars amp and mic placements.
3. Probably 30 minutes or LESS for the bassist to get his tone/ setup. Bassist are quick!!
4. 15-20 minutes for the vocalist to truely warm up. i've done first takes... then second takes... then moved to another tune. And by that second tune the vocalists voice is turned 'on'! So we do that tune and finish it, then go back and re-do the first tune ! Hahaha...

So, there you have about 2 1/2 - 3 hours. And you haven't added in the actual 10 minute tunes session times two guitarists / a drummer / a bassist / a vocalist with back tracks and lead tracks. Ohhhh the dreaded lead takes! At $50 a tune... you WILL quickly get bored and tired of hearing.... " hey, let's do that one again " .... " shit, I heard a rim " .... " let's try this guitar thru that combo " .... " I can do it better "...." let's hear it again ".

If you can do it, well good for you. Seriously. But just remember when you charge by the tune... it's by the tune. Wether it's a 2:00 jam or a 12 minute master piece.
Charge by the job. You really never know what you'll run into unless it's a previous client/ friend. And then sometimes, they'll throw in a change

 

[ApolloSpeed]

i would say charge by the hour..... if its a full length album, if the band wants to, just do one lump sum and high ball it.

 

[Zombietakeover]

Dont forget cost of living and the price on everything gets way higher as you move closer to those big cities.....So your goona have to make even more to live comfotable

From what you've told us, your job has terrible hours and the musicians in your area do not take their shit seriously enough to lay down cash for a good recording. Sounds like you might need to move. Have you ever considered moving closer to one of the major music hubs: LA, NY, Nashville? You are making $100 a day at your current job. You can make that at almost any dead-end job in LA/NY/Nash.