At what point in the mix do you start adding samples?

[JeffTD]

This will be for the guys who work with real drum or heavily augment programmed stuff;

At what point in the project/mix do you start choosing drum samples to layer? Do you start mixing first and then add when you feel you need to get something more/different out of the mic'd kit? Do you start throwing other instruments into the mix and then pick your samples?

My workflow usually involves choosing the samples before I've started comping/eq'ing the kit, mostly because I've known that I'd be adding samples regardless. I just set levels, audition some samples I think will fit the project, bounce 4-5 per drum, bring them in and see what's working with the normal kit, and then throw the rest of the instruments on top. If I'm finding I need a different top end or a bit more midrange thunk or something to fit with the instruments better, I'll add more later, but I've only had to do that once so far.

Where does the sample replacement/augmentation come into play for you?

 

[Morgan C]

I'll almost always start off with samples. I use Trigger and also almost always make frankensnares with multiple sample sets (not so much with other drums, but I will use room, close, etc. mics from different sources).

It seems about 2-3 times per mix, well into it (hours in) I'll decide the snare or kick doesn't fit and completely start from scratch with different samples.

 

[Erik Monsonis]

I have my go-to samples I load in the very beginning and rarely change

 

[dcb]

i usually have a set of premade samples (for example i modelled the deftones snare, the nickelback snare and so on.)
then i load up all tracks and listen to the song, trying to find out what snare and kick id like for this song to really jump out of the speakers.
9 out of 10 times on heavy stuff ill replace the shell set right away, but on slower (lets call it jazzy) stuff, i always try to make the original snare work
first.

to me its important that the drumset gels with the bass - they make my ssl work up to 2 db gain reduction.
if that already sounds like music to my ear, i move on to guitars and vocals.
rarely do i change the snare sound at the end of mixing, its just that sometimes you find out that those walls of guitars
need something with more crack or bottom, thats when i add other samples for attack or release.
its easy in trigger, if i need more crack, ill just add a cracky snare and cut away the sustain with triggers parameters.
or if i need another snare-sustain-color, ill cut away the transient (attack 20ms) of a ringy snare and layer that.

 

[Jarkko Mattheiszen]

As I always begin the mix with the drums, I also pick the samples in the early stages. First I get a basic drum mix going (levels, pans, basic EQ) and decide what drums need replacement. Usually, that's kick, snare and toms After that I'll start constructing the whole kit, choosing and layering samples. I might change or add some samples when the whole mix is getting it's shape, but the basic kit is always done at that point.

 

[Pedro Teixeira]

If drums are well tracked and have useable tones then I may not use samples. The thing is, I haven't been able to do a single mix 100% real and I say that because of the kick being the culprit here. I'm mixing a mellow pop/rock band at the moment and I couldn't use the kick because it was too dynamic and I mean WAY too dynamic and it's impossible to get it under control without sample replacing, be it with any sample or with the kick itself... but it has to be replaced... so I usually always start with the kick at the beginning if I see it's not gonna work just by listening to a song once, if the snare for example doesn't fit I'll blend in or replace as well. So usually, always at the start.

 

[jimwilbourne]

Honestly, I add them in the drum editing stage

 

[Soundlurker]

Usually I'd add them very early on but lately I often find myself not using samples at all even though I know a little augmentation can go a long way.

 

[::XeS::]

After the edit, I start the creation of the drums sound.
If the natural sound and the performance are really good I try to get the best sound possible but most of the time I replace the kick with my own samples. Same thing with snare.
During the mix sometimes I add other sample layers to fit better in the mix

 

[NSGUITAR]

I can't help myself from adding them right after the drums are recorded! I feel to anxious NOT to, so I just do it then. haha

 

[Ermz]

Just after I've gain structured, Nebula'd up and set the master chain on the project. I'll start with the overheads, work the raw drums in as well as I can, and complete the rest of the picture with samples. By the end I'm usually using significantly more sample than real drum in heavier music, just because.... I hate the way drums sound in reality, so I want to get as far away from that as possible. I would much rather blend in bright snare samples than boost 9dB of highs on my snare track and flood the song with hi-hat bleed.

 

[crillemannen]

When i mix heavier music i start with the kick, and build a kick that i like with a couple of different samples. Then i move to the snare and build the snare i want. Then moving on to ovheads and last the toms. My ambition is to have a good acoustic sound, but it is almost always impossible because the drummers usually are not that good, and can deliver consistent hits

 

[Skinny Viking]

after editing but I usually have a set of clean hit samples of the actual drum kit ready to go.... at the very least the toms. Snares I have a couple of go-to samples I usually use to blend in, I always keep the original snare track in a mix. Same with kicks but I never make a decision on which ones to use until after I'm hearing everything with guitars, bass, etc

 

[nwright]

I usually do it like everyone else it sounds like, especially if I'm just mixing/mastering.

If I tracked the drums, I try to see if the miked tones will work with the overall mix first, though. If so, I tend to EQ/comp those first, then make samples of the actual kit used and augment with those if needed, and then if none of that is tickling my fancy, I'll look to external sample sources for augmentation and/or replacement. My last project had a combination of miked tones, actual kit samples and external samples.

 

[462studio]

I usually add a snare and a kick sample while tracking. I find it much easier for myself to hear what the hell is going on with a consistent sound right from the get go. Whatever I use is almost never what stays though. I usually just use something snappy and tight for ease of monitoring.

 

[Jaymz]

As in the project im just finishing up I left it all natural until I got my guitars and bass reamped before testing out samples. As the bass/guitar tone always dictates how the samples sound/cut in my mixes.

 

[Dollarosa]

I always try and get the best sound with the original tracks, then start adding samples to see if I can give it more of a "pro" sound. Been trying real hard to keep away from samples and this has helped my knowleedge and skill in eq and compression. Samples are usually added as a helper kind of track, for greater punch and attack as well as volume consistency. I start with overheads, then kick, snare, and toms. Room is left last. I trick I learnt from gearslutz is to determine which is going to be the driving force of the drums between the overheads and the room mics. Someties I have the room mics higher in the mix as it represents the drums more in regards to that mix. Samples are always added last for me

 

[Aaron Smith]

Lately I've been nailing down the bass and guitar tones first, then bringing drums and drum samples into it; it seems pointless to try to EQ the drums just right, only to have to do it all over again because the impact of the drums has changed in context with the guitars.

 

[RevoltStudios]

Lately I'll mix the drums completely the best they can sound then rough mix the rest and if the drums aren't cutting it I'll then add samples. This kinda forces me to stop relying on samples and actually try the real set lol. It's worked great! Most of the time I won't use samples on close mics but will trigger the room.

 

[AboutBlank]

Usually when the volume of the natural kit is set(rough) I start adding samples.

But yeah, the last stuff was so awful sounding that i started with samples, just OH's and room mic.
You know what happens when the drummer chimes in with a taped snare and toms without reso skins...