Audix i5 extremely hot?

[Melodeath]

For those of you with an i5, have you found it to be very high output? My brother just got an i5 and he told me that he had to put the preamp volume on his MOTU all the way down (miking a snare), and he still went into the red sometimes.

This sounded very odd to me, like possibly the mic is defective, but I've never used an i5, so it's possible they are a lot hotter than I thought.

He didn't report the mic sounding weird or anything, he just said it seems to be extremely hot, so he needs to get an attenuator/pad.

Has anyone else experienced this with an i5?

 

[Sinister Mephisto]

Yes, all the time. But it's mostly because of how loud a snare is 3 inches away. You won't need a lot if any gain on a 57 either they way some metal guys hit. Regardless, the mic is not defective.

 

[TheWinterSnow]

The i5 has a SPL handling of 140 db, which means that if the signal is too hot, the preamp is at fault. if the preamp is running way hot on a high SPL mic then the transformer in the pre is tweaked (or the interface doesn't have one). A high impedance signal going into a line level is going go overload the line really easy.

so he may want to invest in a decent mic pre

 

[Glenn Fricker]

You're going to run into hot levels tracking drums, period. Even with an API preamp.

You might want to try switching over to an RME fireface. It has a "lo gain" setting for your inputs for precisely this reason.

 

[TheWinterSnow]

You're going to run into hot levels tracking drums, period. Even with an API preamp.

You might want to try switching over to an RME fireface. It has a "lo gain" setting for your inputs for precisely this reason.

so in your opinion would you say that a snare at the source and up to 3 inches would peak well over 140 db?

last time i checked 147db at your ear would cause them to instantly implode and even being a few feet away from a 140+ db source would do damage even if it was a very very short period of time that the volume was endured. so i am a little confused, because if that were true at the throne hitting a snare over and over again would render you completely deaf within 10 minutes.

 

[Sinister Mephisto]

TheWinterSnow, I think you are misunderstanding. No one is claiming that the mic can't handle the high SPL. Obviously the drum is not that loud even at that distance, and if it was, the mic could handle it. It's a sturdy dynamic. Not even the original poster was trying to say this. My understanding (and experience) is that the mic sounds fine. I believe the only thing that's clipping is the convertors.

Honestly, the clips that I see when I record snare, a rarely if ever hear as audible distortion. It only takes a few samples over 0 to get a little red light, and your ear can't react that quickly.

 

[alexrookie]

maybe it's the motu pres?
don't know them, but turning the button all way down doesn't mean, that you don't have the gain working.
a lot of preamps start with a gain of 20 dB or something and don't have a pad.
check your manual and/or get another pre.

 

[Melodeath]

I know levels are usually hot when tracking drums, but I've never had anything clip when I had the preamp knob all the way down. That's why I thought this was really odd about my brother's i5.

 

[greyskull]

You're going to run into hot levels tracking drums, period. Even with an API preamp.

You might want to try switching over to an RME fireface. It has a "lo gain" setting for your inputs for precisely this reason.

ESPECIALLY with an API!!!
With some mics, they're just not useable without inline attenuators

 

[006]

I know levels are usually hot when tracking drums, but I've never had anything clip when I had the preamp knob all the way down. That's why I thought this was really odd about my brother's i5.

Lol...this is a really common problem when tracking drums man. On my 8Pre I must engage the 20dB pad on the drum mics otherwise it's clip city, even with the preamp gain knobs at zero on most sources. This was similar on a Mackie 32.8 mixer, as well as tons of outboard pres going into PTHD in my experience so far. If it was doing it on high-end outboard then I'm pretty sure it's not a defective mic or interface...this is why there are in-line and built-in signal pads available.

~006

 

[Melodeath]

Thanks guys

I just never experienced this on drums before, oddly, but it's good to hear it's pretty normal.

 

[Sinister Mephisto]

Yeah man, I've had the pre at zero on my snare for the last like ten sessions I've done. Haha. Except for the last session I did, where I used an SM7. That's a really fuckin low output mic! No pad needed.

 

[seditz740novaprospect]

Lol...this is a really common problem when tracking drums man. On my 8Pre I must engage the 20dB pad on the drum mics otherwise it's clip city, even with the preamp gain knobs at zero on most sources. This was similar on a Mackie 32.8 mixer, as well as tons of outboard pres going into PTHD in my experience so far. If it was doing it on high-end outboard then I'm pretty sure it's not a defective mic or interface...this is why there are in-line and built-in signal pads available.

~006

same thing ive found out over time

 

[egan.]

I regularly have to pad all of my drum mic inputs (close mics, not OH's) - particularly the snare. This is totally normal.

 

[Glenn Fricker]

so in your opinion would you say that a snare at the source and up to 3 inches would peak well over 140 db?

No, I wouldn't. Please don't put words in my mouth. I speak from experience.
http://www.ultimatemetal.com/forum/production-tips/217656-acoustic-drums-metal-guide.html#post4223560

What I'm saying is that his Motu pre's probably start at 10 or 20 db's of gain at the "zero" position. So, close micing a very loud source is going to be difficult if you have no way to dump that extra gain.
Even the Great River MP2NV starts at 5db.

 

[Melodeath]

Btw, my brother said he had preamp gain up for all the other mics. Only the i5 had to be at zero.

 

[TheWinterSnow]

No, I wouldn't. Please don't put words in my mouth. I speak from experience.

i wasn't trying to put words in your mouth. i know that the i5 has a 140 db headroom and if hypothetically a pre started at 0 the line to the pre would clip as soon as the mic would...at 140 db. being that a pre having a 5-20 db increase would have some issues with micing drums and even guitars.

 

[JBroll]

Okay...

The 140dB figure was brought in to remove any fear of diaphragm distortion. The mic doesn't put out a 140dB signal. That figure simply means that you could shove an i5 in front of flaming nuclear death and it would just sit there picking lint out of its navel.

The output level is a different story. We now speak of output level alone, so pretend for a moment that the number 140 doesn't even exist. Any mic put in front of a snare will either be loud or dead. The i5 is fairly hot, at least compared to other mics I use, and a snare is either fucking loud or fucking played wrong, so the reason clipping occurs is that the output is high enough to piss the preamp off. On top of that, preamps don't always have the lowest level notch set to unity gain, so even at 0 they're probably tossing some more Loud McNuggets into the order.

To reiterate: 140dB threshold and possibility of clipping are unrelated; gain knobs that don't go down to unity (or, for the other common layout, interfaces that don't have pads) are annoying.

Jeff

 

[egan.]

Okay...

The 140dB figure was brought in to remove any fear of diaphragm distortion. The mic doesn't put out a 140dB signal. That figure simply means that you could shove an i5 in front of flaming nuclear death and it would just sit there picking lint out of its navel.

The output level is a different story. We now speak of output level alone, so pretend for a moment that the number 140 doesn't even exist. Any mic put in front of a snare will either be loud or dead. The i5 is fairly hot, at least compared to other mics I use, and a snare is either fucking loud or fucking played wrong, so the reason clipping occurs is that the output is high enough to piss the preamp off. On top of that, preamps don't always have the lowest level notch set to unity gain, so even at 0 they're probably tossing some more Loud McNuggets into the order.

To reiterate: 140dB threshold and possibility of clipping are unrelated; gain knobs that don't go down to unity (or, for the other common layout, interfaces that don't have pads) are annoying.

Jeff

I'll add that there also seems to be some fundamental confusion about dB spl and dBv going on and generally acoustic vs electronic relationships.