automating vocals vs compression in metal

[dcb]

so i bought the multi platinum pro tools dvd's about mixing,
and this guy automated every single syllable, which i think is a great way
to get the vocals sit nicely in mix.

well, i love the sound of slightly overcompressed LA2A type vocal style
for my metal mixes.
it makes the vocalist sound more like a star to me;-)


my question is :

what do you prefer on lead vocals in metal :

heavy compression vs lots of automation with slight compression?

i feel that you get a more natural sound of the automation, but i dont think
that its the best way to go for metal... at least not to my ears.

thanks !

 

[Yhanthlei]

You could use automation for perfect balance, and then crush it to death for sound....
or do some parallel compression...

 

[GarethSE]

slight compression on vocal group track
sends from the group track to a bunch of different compressors
parallel comp the FUCK out of it
and automate

 

[dcb]

You could use automation for perfect balance, and then crush it to death for sound....
or do some parallel compression...

hehe, but if i crush the vox with my la2a, there is really no need for automation any more ;-) expect for the breaths. at least in my experience...

 

[Lasse Lammert]

I compress real hard...
a couple of dB on the way in with a real subtle and smooth compressor (safe sound audio P1) and then another 6-10dB with my Classic compressor II (kinda 1176 like attitude), sometimes API2500, sometimes BombFactory.
then I'll sometimes distort it a bit (=more compression) and sometimes I'll put AC2 or something on it in the end...so I've got lots of compression going on.
and THEN I'll still automate levels, but I don't wanna go as far as automating every syllable or even every word, I start with chorusses vs. verses, and then perhaps the odd word here and there, but most of the time I end up with only 2-3 main levels automated, with perhaps 2-4 extra word-automations (on screams etc).

 

[Morgan C]

If you're not recording in a completely dead vocal booth (I record in my bedroom atm, which is kinda dead but not nearly as dead as a booth), too much compression will make the room sound too loud and make the vocals sound cheap. Even moreso if you start using distortion (for screams). Be wary of that, you might not hear it on monitors because they're in the room, but listen on headphones and its really obvious.

You can hear it quite a lot in Joey Sturgis's mixes on the screams.. my only criticism of his mixes.

So I try to have the minimum compression needed to even everything out. I'd rather automate the levels going into the mixer a bit on the soft bits than turn the compressor up to compensate.

 

[greyskull]

I compress real hard...
a couple of dB on the way in with a real subtle and smooth compressor (safe sound audio P1) and then another 6-10dB with my Classic compressor II (kinda 1176 like attitude), sometimes API2500, sometimes BombFactory.
then I'll sometimes distort it a bit (=more compression) and sometimes I'll put AC2 or something on it in the end...so I've got lots of compression going on.
and THEN I'll still automate levels, but I don't wanna go as far as automating every syllable or even every word, I start with chorusses vs. verses, and then perhaps the odd word here and there, but most of the time I end up with only 2-3 main levels automated, with perhaps 2-4 extra word-automations (on screams etc).

Pretty much what he said

 

[C_F_H_13]

I do it all in layers. First layer is a basic automation layer where I ride up certain WORDS (not syllables). Then 2-3 layers of different compression/limiting, followed by a final layer of "detail automation". This layer I check to make sure that every word can be heard and any wierd noises that happen while the singer is actually singing get ducked or dealt with. The I go bananas with EQ/distortion/modulation and other fx.

 

[freddrik]

I do it all in layers. First layer is a basic automation layer where I ride up certain WORDS (not syllables). Then 2-3 layers of different compression/limiting, followed by a final layer of "detail automation". This layer I check to make sure that every word can be heard and any wierd noises that happen while the singer is actually singing get ducked or dealt with. The I go bananas with EQ/distortion/modulation and other fx.

Is there a way to do prefader automation or do you use audiosuite gain to even out words before the plugins?

 

[Yhanthlei]

Is there a way to do prefader automation or do you use audiosuite gain to even out words before the plugins?

RTFM?

Depends on your DAW, but it should certainly be possible

 

[C_F_H_13]

Is there a way to do prefader automation or do you use audiosuite gain to even out words before the plugins?

I run my vocal tracks to a separate aux, which has all my plugs on it. I automate the actual track into this aux.

 

[KKuff]

If you're not recording in a completely dead vocal booth (I record in my bedroom atm, which is kinda dead but not nearly as dead as a booth), too much compression will make the room sound too loud and make the vocals sound cheap. Even moreso if you start using distortion (for screams). Be wary of that, you might not hear it on monitors because they're in the room, but listen on headphones and its really obvious.

You can hear it quite a lot in Joey Sturgis's mixes on the screams.. my only criticism of his mixes.

So I try to have the minimum compression needed to even everything out. I'd rather automate the levels going into the mixer a bit on the soft bits than turn the compressor up to compensate.

Does this apply even if it's a good sounding room? Would it maybe sound like putting reverb on before compressing?

 

[chonchball]

Does this apply even if it's a good sounding room? Would it maybe sound like putting reverb on before compressing?

exactly

 

[AStudio]

I compress very hard but there is no substitution for automation in my book.

Its the key for me.

Of course if it doesnt need it then I wont automate but normally the vocals are compressed heavily with BF1176 (great on vocal) and automated on chrous's and verse's as per Lasse, Greyskull et al.

Just my method.

 

[Zombietakeover]

Your crazy Sturgis's vocals are Ace!

If you're not recording in a completely dead vocal booth (I record in my bedroom atm, which is kinda dead but not nearly as dead as a booth), too much compression will make the room sound too loud and make the vocals sound cheap. Even moreso if you start using distortion (for screams). Be wary of that, you might not hear it on monitors because they're in the room, but listen on headphones and its really obvious.

You can hear it quite a lot in Joey Sturgis's mixes on the screams.. my only criticism of his mixes.

So I try to have the minimum compression needed to even everything out. I'd rather automate the levels going into the mixer a bit on the soft bits than turn the compressor up to compensate.

 

[TRA]

I like to compress slightly on the way in (knocking off a few db at most), then automate, then compress again if needed. Usually I have some some of saturation/distortion going on which also limits dynamics.

 

[Morgan C]

Does this apply even if it's a good sounding room? Would it maybe sound like putting reverb on before compressing?

As dead a room as you can get is best for vocals.

Your crazy Sturgis's vocals are Ace!

For a really obvious example, listen to 'Dez Moines' off the latest TDWP. At 1;03 'goes' and 'show', as the vocalist's distortion wears off you get a really ugly room sound coming through. I can hear it even on speakers but if you listen on headphones its even more apparent.

If you're tracking in a largish room, you'll get a sound like that even with no compression, and then when you start adding compression it just turns into a shitty sounding recording. Trust me, I first did vocals like that, and now having moved to my bedroom they've improved a LOT. I'm sure once I get a proper vocal booth they'll improve even more, as even now I can't really compress more than about 10dB without the room sound creeping in, and its inevitable if I start adding distortion or saturation.