Compression on your mix bus and mastering

[abyssofdreams]

Now, after months of testing here and there I'm currently somewhat unsure how much compression to use on my 2bus and/or in my final mastering chain.

Most of the time I'm just using a G-styled-comp with a 4:1 ratio, 30ms attack and fast release, ducking around 3-5db of gain, while 3db is the minimum throughout a song when just guitars, bass and drums are playing, I hit 5db peaks when vocals and background stuff is going on, to get an idea...

That and some slight EQ fixes + Clipping/Limiting and finally Dithering and I'm done.

People talk about Tube and tape saturation but each of these compress like at least 1-2db each too, adding this and following the tip to add even some more transparent compression this would sum up to something around 9-10db overall mixbus compression if that makes sense.

Isn't that "too much"?
What is your way of doing it?

I mean how does your 2bus chain look alike and do you do any "final glue compression" whatsoever after mixdown?

 

[punkrockacademyfightsong]

i think 5 bd's of compression with a 4:1 ratio will really be too audible. in my opinion it's better to use more stages of subtle compression than 1 stage of less sublte compression.

 

[LSD-Studio]

WAY too much.

I have the needle on my C2 barely moving.

 

[brandy]

Maybe 1-2db of gainreduction on the louder parts with a ration between 1,2 and 2.0 with "not too short" attack.. 30-50ms... sometimes a second compression stage - here often with attack between 100-150 ms and long release... Personally I don't like compression on the mixbus. I never mix with stuff going on on the masterbus.

 

[Jarkko Mattheiszen]

I usually end up having 3-3,5db compression on the master bus. .3 attack, fastest release and a 4:1 ratio. 5db is way too much for me, it smashed the hell out of my mixes.

 

[abyssofdreams]

Shit, I'm getting confused, lol.

Hmm, I was talking about the mix bus (or master/stereo/ 2 bus, whatever you call it) of the stereo out channel of my interface in my DAW, no outboard stuff...
Lasse, do you mean you don't do any further compression whatsoever besides the tiny C2 adjustment? I mean, even if you'd do the mastering by yourself?

merci

 

[abyssofdreams]

I should add that I don't have any analog stuff (yet) to saturate my mixes which is
why I was taking Daunt's guide into account http://www.faderwear.com/guides/extrememasterbus/

 

[ArtGarceau]

I'm no help...

It depends on the song.

 

[Jaymz]

I thought around 4db reduction was good? :\

 

[colonel kurtz]

there's no "magic number" for gain reduction...you just have to fiddle with the knobs until it sounds right

 

[AudioGeekZine]

how much GR and at what ratio depends on the genre. I'm using the Waves SSL bus comp.
For Metal I'd do about 4dB @ 10:1 and for lighter rock I'd do 2dB @ 4:1
I keep the output level @ unity/0db
and adjust the threshold to get the average compression level, harder parts of the song might go above, some parts might not get any compression.
I set this up roughly at the beginning of the session and recheck after any major gain changes. I'm not looking for volume from this compressor, just glue.

 

[Sickan]

I use a gclip that tames transients, then a waves ssl comp with around 6 db GR, then one more gclip that tames remaining transients and at last a L2 with max 1 db GR.

 

[nwright]

Shit, I'm getting confused, lol.

Hmm, I was talking about the mix bus (or master/stereo/ 2 bus, whatever you call it) of the stereo out channel of my interface in my DAW, no outboard stuff...
Lasse, do you mean you don't do any further compression whatsoever besides the tiny C2 adjustment? I mean, even if you'd do the mastering by yourself?

merci

Compression on your mix buss, and compression in mastering may be 2 seperate topics, and probably would be handled differently in each application.

 

[beyond dead]

i usually use slight tape or tube saturation FIRST to emulate the old consoles. (sometimes i use a multi band her, depending on the project) then light compression only affecting the louder passages (to make them less dynamic) then a limiter (hard) then a compressor (maybe 3- 3.5 db reduction) then another limiter (hard) bitches!!! sounds to be overkill, ut overall GR is only like 6 - 8db`s or so.
edit: multiband or tape IN THE DAW, rest is done in wav burner. sometimes i may treat different sections of a sond differently in wavburner

 

[abyssofdreams]

Compression on your mix buss, and compression in mastering may be 2 seperate topics, and probably would be handled differently in each application.

That's what I'm wondering, 'cause it's basically the same if I do both, mix and master, why would I do compression after mixdown if only just for fixing things?

Basically I'm just doing a mixdown of a track in 32bit float, import into my mastering suite (e.g. in my case Wavelab) and do some mastering-related fixes, fades, limiting and stuff but no compression there, instead having all comps and saturation stuff on my mixbus, so there is basically nothing with this?

Another point is, it means the mixbus is abstractly speaking just a reserved slot for mixing engineers to give them an opportunity to do some track shaping (meaning compression and such) before leaving the mixdowns to the mastering house?

By the way, I use compression for glue also, not for volume.

 

[nwright]

That's what I'm wondering, 'cause it's basically the same if I do both, mix and master, why would I do compression after mixdown if only just for fixing things?

Basically I'm just doing a mixdown of a track in 32bit float, import into my mastering suite (e.g. in my case Wavelab) and do some mastering-related fixes, fades, limiting and stuff but no compression there, instead having all comps and saturation stuff on my mixbus, so there is basically nothing with this?

Another point is, it means the mixbus is abstractly speaking just a reserved slot for mixing engineers to give them an opportunity to do some track shaping (meaning compression and such) before leaving the mixdowns to the mastering house?

By the way, I use compression for glue also, not for volume.

I can't speak for anyone else specifically, but the big thing I'd see people use compression for in mastering is to get loudness/fatness by reducing dynamics, possibly in lieu of using a limiter alone. If you are using compression on your mix buss as "glue" and do not use a compressor on your mastering bus at all and don't see a need for it in mastering, then don't use it, no big deal. But, are your raw mixes pretty loud already? Just curious.

For me, I use a light compressor with a fast attack and decay simply to smooth transients on the mix buss. 4dB reduction, but my mixes generally sit at -8db or more. So, you could probably count on one hand the number of times the compressor truly does much of anything...Usually I only see the meter dance a bit if I throw in a subdrop, hehe.

I master in a different session, and I use MB compression through my TC Finalizer which does compress quite a bit I guess, but varies in amount by selected bands. My chain is generally:

1. Master EQ (plugin) - most of the time lately I don't use this much except for maybe a small high shelf boost (1dB or less)
2. out to HW finalizer - more extreme for metal, less extreme settings for other stuff
3. back into DAW for clipper (plugin)
4. limiting (plugin)

I think my mixes pale in comparison to others here, and from what I think I hear, they compress a lot more than I do these days, so I still feel like I have a lot to learn in regards to effective mix bus compression and effective compression in mastering. When I first started I compress the hell out of a mix, and just killed it.

 

[beyond dead]

That's what I'm wondering, 'cause it's basically the same if I do both, mix and master, why would I do compression after mixdown if only just for fixing things?

Basically I'm just doing a mixdown of a track in 32bit float, import into my mastering suite (e.g. in my case Wavelab) and do some mastering-related fixes, fades, limiting and stuff but no compression there, instead having all comps and saturation stuff on my mixbus, so there is basically nothing with this?

Another point is, it means the mixbus is abstractly speaking just a reserved slot for mixing engineers to give them an opportunity to do some track shaping (meaning compression and such) before leaving the mixdowns to the mastering house?

By the way, I use compression for glue also, not for volume.

the slots on the 2 bus are for those who like to mix through a compressor or limiter

a compressor/limiter on 2 bus helps you even out the dynamics of the mix (ex. drums, guitars, vox sit where they should dynamically in the mix) and gets things pumping a bit (in and out pumpin baby)
if i dont mix through a compressor, my mixes arent as good. just me though

 

[grywolf627]

...My chain is generally:

1. Master EQ (plugin) - most of the time lately I don't use this much except for maybe a small high shelf boost (1dB or less)
2. out to HW finalizer - more extreme for metal, less extreme settings for other stuff
3. back into DAW for clipper (plugin)
4. limiting (plugin)

Sorry to get off topic here, but: You're not still using the Manley Passive 22Hz-18KHz IR in Pristine Space to get that "air"? You were the one that turned me on to that idea in the first place.

Your mixes pale in comparison? Pfff....don't think so, bro.

 

[abyssofdreams]

Sorry to get off topic here, but: You're not still using the Manley Passive 22Hz-18KHz IR in Pristine Space to get that "air"? You were the one that turned me on to that idea in the first place.

Your mixes pale in comparison? Pfff....don't think so, bro.

What what?

 

[jhrv]

Waves SSL

Threshold: -2db/-4db
Attack: 30ms
Release: Auto
Make up Gain: 0db