Automation In Metal

CJWall

CJWall

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Oct 21, 2005
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Southwest Florida, USA
I've been wondering this alot lately. How big a role does automation play in todays modern metal mix? I can see how it's benfits in pop/rock with very defined choruses/verses/bridges etc., but with most of the bands I work with, there is no real definition of a verse or chorus or what have you..

Up until now I've done very little or no automation my mixes, how do you guys use automation to benefit your mixes in an extreme/modern metal context?

The thing that really got me thinking about this was seeing MILAR by Charles Dye when he got into the automation stage. Up until then I had never really known how others use automation so I was wayy surprised to see the amount of automation going on in that song. It started to make sense to me, but I still don't see exactly how I can apply it to more extreme styles of music.

Seems one could go very deep with automation and do some very creative and inspiring things.. hmmmmm.

Any thoughts?
 
depends on the time you've got for a mix..
with an unlimited amount of time I'd consider overhead automation for some projects.
i like loud cymbals, but too much overhead can kill your mix (snarebleed etc).
so you could ride the cymbal-hits
 
Yeah.. like LSD said!

I'm justing getting into it myself (also thanks to mylar hahahaha..), but doing some automation in the overheads (making them louder in some parts to make it more exciting, or make the build up to a certain part cooler)

Or i automate some vocals to stand out more on some parts.

But thats it realy...

Edit: andy wallace rides his overheads too, thats where i picked that up: http://mixonline.com/mag/audio_andy_wallace/
 
I use quite a bit of automation throughout, because our music is quite layered. So, for example, when a big choir comes in during the chorus, I'll probably have to bump down the guitars, etc. to keep things inline, or turn down the kicks during fast double bass sections, or automate EQ, etc. And I always have to ride the lead vocal in certain phrases, etc. to make sure every word is intelligible. Also sometimes overheads, etc., so yeah, I definitely use a lot of automation.
 
since using a control surface ive been all about automation.
definatly riding the ohs a few db in the chorus's and bringing them down and the room and close mics up in the quieter sections, ride vocals a little but not a whole heap just a dynamic thing again.

so yeah apparently andy wallace doesa lot his mix thru automation. mental
incorporating some of these elements can definatly make for a more exciting dynamic mix
 
I can't stand it with a mouse so i really try not to unless it really really calls for it. But if i had a board or control surface i would use all kinds of automation like dude said double kicks and blast beats always need pulling down and i would love to ride overheads like that.
 
broken81 said:
I can't stand it with a mouse so i really try not to unless it really really calls for it. But if i had a board or control surface i would use all kinds of automation like dude said double kicks and blast beats always need pulling down and i would love to ride overheads like that.
Click to expand...

It really is just a matter of getting used to it. At least in Cubase the mouse automation is quick and painfree ...
 
In Nunedo it's pretty to use automation without having to use the mouse in real time. I usually run through it riding the mouse and find my levels and then I put in the fader movement point by clicking them in while the music is stopped to make sure my fader movements are fluid and precise. works for me!
 
CJWall said:
I've been wondering this alot lately. How big a role does automation play in todays modern metal mix? I can see how it's benfits in pop/rock with very defined choruses/verses/bridges etc., but with most of the bands I work with, there is no real definition of a verse or chorus or what have you..


Any thoughts?
Click to expand...

You do know that most death metal, and the like, mixes are looked down on by most engineers. Its not because the music doesnt alow for dynamics and depth. Its that the majority of people mixing it are not that talented and the new guys are copying them.

A pretty savy engineer told me that young engineers gravitate to this genre because of how easy it is to do a mix similiar to the top bands. Meaning: You try and copy Andy Wallace and your screwed. I dont know if I agree with this but I do agree that there are actually only a few people, Andy S being one, that actually have any real quality to their mixes. Most sound like a washy mess to me. Personally, I think it one of the hardest genre's to mix--but that no excuse

So I guess the point Im trying to make is--just because you dont hear much automation or depth in these mixes doesnt mean you should try and emulate that. In fact, a good exericse would be to do some more traditional mixes and then take those skills to this genre because it needs a kick in the pants.

anyone else agree with this? Because Im for improvement:headbang:

BTW..you can have the automation in the world but your foolin yourself if you dont think that these squashed tracks, mixbuses, and mastering stages are not just flattening that automation to where it was before. I have seen plenty of guys with all these fader moves that added up to no meter movement at the end.
 
I automate a lot. For one thing aside from manual fader riding I don't know how else you would get a vocal to sit right. Beyond that I do a ton of automation of volume, pan, fx, etc.

BTW, I don't agree w/ the sentiment that it's easy to get a mix to sound like the "top bands" in death metal. 99% of the guys in this forum (myself included) have spent years chasing the sounds of Richardson, Fredman, Sneap and (many) other fantastic DM engineers. It sounds like your friend's savvy hasn't saved him from his prejudice. I think young engineers gravitate towards the genres that they are fans of-- not things that are easy. Not to mention everyone besides AW is fucked if they try to sound like AW.
 
Thanks dudes, pretty much confirmed what I had thought.

I've spent so much time learning basic basic compressor, eq, limiting, etc. functions and how to apply them that I really haven't spent too much time looking in to automation. I've done the basic overhead riding and such and a little vocal riding but that's it.

It's exciting to start figuring all this out now, kind of opening up a huge new creative window.

Thanks!
Charlie
 
I will automate to varying amounts depending on how much production/ layering has been done, and what the track calls for. I find that I use it most on vocals and leads, sometimes snare too. Where there have been more overdubs and different tracks come in and out with different leads/ rhythms less automation is generally needed as opose to a simple recording where the existing tracks vary parts.
I like to automate sends too. Adding a touch more reverb or delay where the track becomes emptier can be a nice touch.
 
automation is a function in your daw that when you move a fader or twist a knob it will record the movements and everytime you play back it will do your fader rides on its own...im sure you've have seen it when faders are moving by themselves...that automation
 
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