Automation In Metal

When you automate OH's, it it to kill "bleed" between cymbalhits or is it depending on hard/soft parts in the song?

I have always thought that automation makes the mixing process harder. In cubase you "lock" the fader once you start automating, so any overall changes on the fader must be done on the automation-track.
 
I automate on everything as needed. In your average metal mix with the click kick, it's necessary to ride either the volume or high-end to not sound too robotic on double-kick parts.

Vocals are massive automation for me. From panning to volume, to sends... vocals really punctuate a lot of sections in many songs, so it's important to adjust your mix to that.

I automate rhythm guitars only to make some things more intelligible and prominent. Leads are mainly a clarity thing.

Drums I generally like to keep fairly consistent throughout a track, with the exception of kick during fast sections and of course slow sections, where I'll blend less sample (if sampling at all), bring up the room mics, just chill it all out a bit.
 
Polpotkin said:
I have always thought that automation makes the mixing process harder. In cubase you "lock" the fader once you start automating, so any overall changes on the fader must be done on the automation-track.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I greatly dislike this aspect of Cubase/Nuendo. I find with automation things can get very cluttered and hard to keep a track of. However, if your mixing style is orderly, you can generally work out what you're doing where, and keep track of things.
 
Moonlapse said:
I automate on everything as needed. In your average metal mix with the click kick, it's necessary to ride either the volume or high-end to not sound too robotic on double-kick parts.
Click to expand...


I´ve always relied on the multisamples to get some feeling to the kick, but my bd´s have still sounded robotic at times, that´s a trick I´ve got to try. Thanks for pointing it out.
 
Moonlapse said:
Yeah, I greatly dislike this aspect of Cubase/Nuendo. I find with automation things can get very cluttered and hard to keep a track of. However, if your mixing style is orderly, you can generally work out what you're doing where, and keep track of things.
Click to expand...

I always only start automating once I have my whole mix done. That saves me messing with my levels all the time, cause I only automate little things in the "finished product".
 
I use the automation in PT/Nuendo exactly like I would on a SSL. It's all the same, but with different commands for some of the functions.
 
i hate nuendo when it comes to automation... sure acutally automating stuff is pretty easy, but afterward if you think the vox or whatever are too loud you cant just slide the fader and make a global change to everything, no you have to click the little plus icon to find the track you want, then zoom out really far so you can select all the little automation track verteces, then ctrl+clickdrag to the desired value so nothing gets out of place horizontally

someone at steinberg needs to do something about that
 
Phase said:
You do know that most death metal, and the like, mixes are looked down on by most engineers. Its not because the music doesnt alow for dynamics and depth. Its that the majority of people mixing it are not that talented and the new guys are copying them.

A pretty savy engineer told me that young engineers gravitate to this genre because of how easy it is to do a mix similiar to the top bands. Meaning: You try and copy Andy Wallace and your screwed. I dont know if I agree with this but I do agree that there are actually only a few people, Andy S being one, that actually have any real quality to their mixes. Most sound like a washy mess to me. Personally, I think it one of the hardest genre's to mix--but that no excuse

So I guess the point Im trying to make is--just because you dont hear much automation or depth in these mixes doesnt mean you should try and emulate that. In fact, a good exericse would be to do some more traditional mixes and then take those skills to this genre because it needs a kick in the pants.

anyone else agree with this? Because Im for improvement:headbang:

BTW..you can have the automation in the world but your foolin yourself if you dont think that these squashed tracks, mixbuses, and mastering stages are not just flattening that automation to where it was before. I have seen plenty of guys with all these fader moves that added up to no meter movement at the end.
Click to expand...

I agree with that last part.
 
s34nsm411 said:
i hate nuendo when it comes to automation... sure acutally automating stuff is pretty easy, but afterward if you think the vox or whatever are too loud you cant just slide the fader and make a global change to everything, no you have to click the little plus icon to find the track you want, then zoom out really far so you can select all the little automation track verteces, then ctrl+clickdrag to the desired value so nothing gets out of place horizontally

someone at steinberg needs to do something about that
Click to expand...

It's called "trim". It's the same for any automation. Pretend you're using an analog board and use your automation on the mix screen instead of the edit screen. Mix with your ears, not your eyes.
 
Using a control surface with motorised faders makes automation a doddle too...it's gone from a carpal-tunnel inducing scenario with a mouse to being a joy since I got my US2400.
 
I've been playing around with a mix I did a few weeks ago, using some of the ideas everyone left here, definitely a difference (for the better). Vocals sitting way better and more of a chance to showcase and enhance the song, which is really the point of all of this to begin with.

BUT, I can see myself going super obsessive-compulsive with this much control, haha. Probably why I stayed away in the first place. Thank god for deadlines :)
 
CJWall said:
I can see myself going super obsessive-compulsive with this much control, haha.
Click to expand...

OCD is prerequisite for good producers. Make sure the girl you marry isn't bothered by it, because it doesn't stop with music. :)
 
Automation is the shit.
I use it a lot. I like some delay on the vocals, but during certain parts of songs, or in a break, it wont sound cool at all, controlling the delay with automation is great.

Some panning issues can also be solved, and of course there is all stuff already mentioned here, basically concerning levels/eq and such.
 
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