AWFUL news from the Gulf.

[Cyanide_Anima]

The only reason people would panic is because they've been born into this. we all have, it's all we've known. Your're goddamn right people would freak out, because THEY'RE IGNORANT. when the word "share" or "community" is spoken people immediately associate it with communism or socialism, which are buzzwords these days and most people have no clue what those systems are. even though previous attempts at a resource-sharing community or sorts have all been corrupt non-attempts because of money, and their own ignorant greed. people want way more than they need, and the system we live in keeps that going to keep our economy going. our economy is not efficient. our manufacturing of good which fuels the economy is NOT efficient. we waste more shit than we create. I'll give you a quick run down of how things work at my place of employment (roughly how most manufacturing facilities work, i've managed a few and worked in a few...)

buyer buys raw materials based on what manufacturing has used in the past and what the "plan" has speculated for us what sales may be in the coming months. parts supplier ships to us via ups/fed ex/usps/domestic expediters (truckers, usually). manufacturing coordinates with sales, marketing. we build a run of stuff based on schedule and what the current demands are (mostly: SSL, SL3's, TTM57sl, TTM56s, and our new $3000+ "68"(which RIGHT now in this economy, we are FLYING BLIND AS BATS, no clue what's gunna happen and everyone knows it.) Sell Sell Sell. Sell some more. buyer orders more stuff cuz suppliez be dwindlin' 'n shit. we receive parts from multiple vendors/shippers/exp. from supplier (usually in jumbled incoherent batches because they ALL COME FROM CHINA/TAIWAN/JAPAN, sigh electronics... I help receive parts and the issuing of parts during the first half of the day and work with the manufacturing coordinator before i'm off to assembling, testing, and packaging the units.) check our inventory, and check with sales/marketing on what they have sold, and what we might sell. make a run of the not so hot units. buyer buys raw materials.......(INFINITE LOOP OF DOOOOOOOOOOOOM).

I forgot all the shit we throw away in-between steps. packaging materials (endless plastic trays used by manufacturers to store parts, tape, cardboard packaging materials, inserts, bags, sticky dots (used to seal package lip), sleeves, endless bubble wrap, etc. we try to use as much as possible be the man usually makes us toss it, to save $$$. and we are actually pretty good about waste compared to other places i've worked. People don't realize we have many other problems other than just fossil fuel, even though its a doozy. what about GARBAGE? many cities have run out of room and sell each other space to toss trash. what about technological unemployment? slowly our manufacturing and service industry (which was introduced because of peoples labor being replaced by machines...) are being replaced by automation. automation was invented so WE would have to do less work. but its only feed the manufacturing industry to be even greedier; instead of making a work day shorter, they fire people. replaced by machines. machines should serve people as they were intended, but instead we serve them. this system is FUCKED and isn't meant for the best interest of the public, or to be efficient. its meant to be wasteful and unrelenting in the pursuit of profit. If the system works so well, why can't most of the world feed themselves? they work their ass off to make shitty products for practically nothing that WE buy. Their country exploits them, so we exploit their country and that makes it right? what the fuck kind of logic is that. I could go on and on but I'll spare you all....

 

[JeffTD]

when the word "share" or "community" is spoken people immediately associate it with communism or socialism, which are buzzwords these days and most people have no clue what those systems are. even though previous attempts at a resource-sharing community or sorts have all been corrupt non-attempts because of money, and their own ignorant greed.

These are STILL ECONOMIES. This is my point, which you are missing - IDGAF what kind of economy you want, but having one PERIOD is essential to organized, civilized human existence. That is my argument, as that is what Postmortem said we could live without.

 

[Cyanide_Anima]

I think he means economies in the sense of how they currently "operate". as do i. what we need is the top mofuggin' scientists of the world to get together with the sociologists, and the technicians and engineers and figure something tangible out. We need an economy based on Resources. we're all just pushed around (ideologically) by politicians and media who hold ideology over things like, you know, Facts, Science, and the advancement of human civilization. I saw fucking Ghost Hunters on tv at a friends house (i don't have one). on a supposed science channel? wtf is that. most people are ignorant about science. about technology. most people haven't a clue as to what we are capable of. because they have fucking Ghost Hunters on the discovery channel! fucking oprah (and jenny mccarthy, whore...) talking about their knowledge of poison vaccines (which is based off of a MIS-understanding of the science involved.)

so you can give a fuck about whatever you want. but have you ever cared about what you NEED? other people need that too.

have you studied or ever looked at an ant colony? I have an ant colony outside my house that lived under a large rotting tree limb. they are red ants, dunno the species. but I often watch them go out and gather food and things to build their colony with. one time, I stepped on one of the ants as he was carrying something. i watched him squirm. another ant that was far ahead of him came back to get him, dropped his load and took the ant back to the colony. if that lone ant is out there close to the colony, not in the safety of their nest, it makes them all vulnerable. and i think he actually cared (maybe just an emotional appeal..) but it was cool to see. all the ants knew that if one of the workers were not safe, it put the safety of the whole colony into jeopardy. many insects, birds, mammals, and reptiles have similar behavior. but we live in our own land, the "Land of Ideology Not Based Off of Anything Related to Reality", as i call it, lol. but, because resources are supposedly so slim (which they aren't; we just waste things) we fight over resources and jobs. you know, at work everyone is all talky and nice but in reality if they see you as a threat to their job....

I have the understanding we need a resource-based economy (doesn't have to be Fresco's either, as i'm skeptical). one that treats all people equally, otherwise it puts us all in danger if the balance is skewed, like the current world economy. And we need people to be educated. it's kinda messed up that to get a great education in this country, you generally have to be well off in the first place. I know about grants, scholarships, etc, but they only get you a low to low-mid level education at best and you have to work you ass off and lose money if you want to progress your education from there. been there. I have doctor friends still in the hole ten years after graduating. I think it's deliberately put slightly out of reach. not everyone can be a doctor, what would happen to the blue collar jobs? they wouldn't do themselves.

 

[P-E]

what we need is the top mofuggin' scientists of the world to get together with the sociologists, and the technicians and engineers and figure something tangible out.

That would be cool. But there's no way this'd work, try seeling that great idea to a capitalist big boss who owns a chunk of the world to himself.

I definitely agree with you though, as I do with Jeff, of course we need an economy, but we also need to change the one we're in actually.

 

[Cyanide_Anima]

You don't have to sell it to the Big Boss, thats the thing. You have to sell it to the people, but their brains are already full of shit. Ideologies, ancient traditions, consumerism, and superstitious nonsense. but the message doesn't get to the people because the Big Boss owns the airwaves. then you have the problem of Thinking. people don't know how to think logically or reasonably. they go with their "instincts", or feelings, or their beliefs that they hold dearly, and have more importance than just about anything else. our school systems don't help with this at all, and in fact propagate these concepts ("i pledge allegiance..."). Ideology fills the void of critical thinking. and then there's another disturbing problem, how to make sure they would even get the message through all the Hanna Montana, 700 club, Lost, 7pm news, cartoons, pseudo-scientific tv, John Edward: crossing over, and Fox News?

 

[Trevoire520]

^Totally
Freedoms are being taken away, people are being exploited every single day, big business bends you over and fucks you and everyone else in the ass constantly, the government couldn't give a fuck as they're all on the take anyway, the environment is constantly being destroyed, species that we don't even know exist yet are being made extinct because there's no habitat left, access to education is based on wealth, not ability, people die because they don't have money for food/water/medicine/shelter, while at the same time the fat cat's have so much money they could wipe thier asses with £100 notes and not notice a dent in their bank balance. Which really is pretty meaningless at the end of the day, a bunch of numbers printed on paper, nothing more.

But no-one gives a fuck, they're too busy watching x-factor.

The whole system has got so far away from what it was like in the old days, where people looked after each other and traded for the extra things that weren't essential. Sure things are more complicated now and can't go back to how they were, but I really feel like the way the world works (fuck everything as long as we make profit!) has gotten way out of hand.

 

[Melb_shredder]

You know... back in the day, people used to revolt because of poor living conditions, failing ideologies etc... You know why that doesn't happen anymore?? Because people are scared. Scared to risk it all to finally be truly happy and consistent. But instead, they rather live under the thumb, because the devil you know is less scary than the chance you may fuck it up and lose it all! People did it for there family and country a long time ago, I don't understand why we don't now..

Oh wait... Yeah I do! Because the media/ government etc, has ENSURED us that things like that are of the past, and right now, it's a golden age, where government works and everyone should be happy... and if a problem can't be fixed... well don't blame the government, blame the rest of the world!

Yep, /rant

 

[PostMortem1666]

You guys get it.

I should have reworded my statement. We need a BETTER economy based on SUSTAINABILITY rather than CONSUME CONSUME AND FOR THE LOVE OF FUCKING GOD CONSUME.

A working economy does NOT have to involve MONEY.

Like I said, we cannot expect to be sustainable for any length of time when our economy is based on infinite growth and we have finite resources. PERIOD.

 

[Melb_shredder]

Dude, what's funny, is that in time from now, when shit DOES dry up, we will only then realize it's too late! It would be nice for someone who is not only a radical *in a good sense* but also smart enough to point out in black and white HOW and WHY we should change. Whilst people in power conform to normality and expectancy, then we will never grow as a planet. Don't forget, everything we do affects everything on this planet. For such a smart creature, we humans are naive to things around us!

 

[MaxStatic]

My $0.02 Hear me out.

Energy is the worlds new religion and measure of control. Anyone that thinks more than 5~10% of the population of the WORLD would survive a complete and rapid collapse of fossil fuel use, consumption, trade, and all the things that goes along with it is drifting in the clouds. Arguments like "ohh well, babies used to be born in caves" are bullshit because, for the most part, babies aren't born in caves anymore. Get my drift? Even third world countries depend on world economy with very few places in the world remaining "old school" self reliant. I've been to some of them....not nice places either. They tend to be inhabited with really mean, leathery motherfuckers that will cut your throat and use your blood and fat to grease their wooden wheeled wheelbarrow if they feel it's in their best interests to do so. Drop of a hat, no hesitation, no remorse. That kind of "hardness" typically does not exist in the general population(except in prison maybe) of any modernized community...because we have no need for it. Need is the ultimate monkey though. Let me explain.

My job gives me the unique opportunity to see all the ways people have forgotten how to take care of themselves in a animalistic way. Not good or bad, we've adapted to our current environment...which is largely covered in concrete. And just because the modern way of life disappears, the concrete doesn't, not for a long while, long enough for most everyone of this world/life to be wiped out. If one thing remains true of ALL of us, we WILL do what is in our own best interest though. If that means smashing your neighbor's skull in with a hammer for a can of beans because you haven't eaten in a month, YOU WILL do it. For those of you that think your morality is such that you wouldn't, either you haven't not eaten in a month or you would simply be the victim of someone less worried about things like dogma.

The difference between the folks I talked about in the first paragraph and the vast majority of us is we would be scrambling in a apocalyptic collapse, and this is how they live day to day. There are very few of them, in isolated shitholes that for the most part no one else wants to live in, and their numbers wouldn't change much. Our numbers would probably come close to reflecting theirs after the scramble and what's left are those that figured it out a second quicker than their neighbors.

Tragic events in the Gulf for sure but on the other hand, there has never been a time in our existence on this planet that we haven't been a few bad decisions away from going out for good. Going all the way back to "hey I think we should move the oxen over here, ohh fuck, bad idea, now they are dead and now we are dead" to the nuclear arms race to the <insert crisis here> All we can do is try our best not to make things worse and get along/help each other out. Mark my words though, the world will burn from good intentions.

 

[ParsonsMatt]

You guys get it.

I should have reworded my statement. We need a BETTER economy based on SUSTAINABILITY rather than CONSUME CONSUME AND FOR THE LOVE OF FUCKING GOD CONSUME.

A working economy does NOT have to involve MONEY.

It needs some medium of exchange, and money is the best medium of exchange...

 

[PostMortem1666]

It needs some medium of exchange, and money is the best medium of exchange...

Money is not the best. Here is why:

1)The need for infinite growth, which is mathematically unsustainable and ecologically detrimental.

2)A "Corruption Generating" Incentive System.

3)A disjunct, inefficient industrial complex which wastes tremendous amount of resources and energy.

4)A propensity for "Establishments". Very simply, established corporate/financial orders have a built in tendency to stop new, socially positive advents from coming to fruition, if there is a foreshadowed loss of market share, profit and hence power.

5) An inherent obsolescence which creates inferior products immediately due to the need to stay "competitive" This little recognized attribute of production is another example of the waste which is created in the market system.

6)A propensity for monopoly and cartel due to the basic motivation of growth and increased market share.

7)The market system is driven, in part, by scarcity. The less there is of something, the more money that can be generated in the short term.

 

[Cyanide_Anima]

we don't need a medium of exchange, that is part of the problem. people will always want more 'money' because its finite, its scarce. there will be hoarding and fighting over it, empire, etc.

education is the first step. we need to know our relationship with the earth. its non-negotiable. we cannot just pack up and leave if we spill too much oil, or cause runaway global warming. what we have on this earth is finite, and will not last forever, of the human race is to go on in prosperity we have to somewhat "blend in" with the world, naturally (like not destroying rain-forests and cutting down fast-growing north american hardwoods instead...). we have to think renewable. and recyclable. and we have to think outside-the-box and not just re-invent old ideas and add a new splash of color, or an aerodynamic wing and neon lights to it. function not fashion. we have to understand what's truly relevant to us.

 

[PostMortem1666]

Also, we have the resources to feed, clothe, house, educate everyone on the planet, but not the money to pay for it all. We do not need a medium of exchange if there is abundance.

 

[JMarz]

Discussions like these I always tend to stay away from, for the sole fact of that I love sitting back and watching as our race further destroys itself by over-complicating things.

We tend to come off as super-intelligent. Yet we're stupid enough to put ourselves in this position of an ultimate paradox in the first place?

If I were god, I'd be laughing my FUCKING ass off. Then I'd throw a giant rock at Earth and kill you all.

 

[Cyanide_Anima]

Discussions like these I always tend to stay away from, for the sole fact of that I love sitting back and watching as our race further destroys itself by over-complicating things.

We tend to come off as super-intelligent. Yet we're stupid enough to put ourselves in this position of an ultimate paradox in the first place?

If I were god, I'd be laughing my FUCKING ass off. Then I'd throw a giant rock at Earth and kill you all.

hahaha, awesome.

overcomplicated is right!!!

our economic system was invented hundreds of years ago, yet the brightest minds today cannot even grasp it.

 

[ParsonsMatt]

Also, we have the resources to feed, clothe, house, educate everyone on the planet, but not the money to pay for it all. We do not need a medium of exchange if there is abundance.

You have no idea how anything works

 

[roy22341]

You have no idea how anything works

I've just been staying out of it at this point. If anyone has any questions about the actual oil spill though I'd still be happy to answer - as long as its not crazy conspiracy theories.

 

[iHate]

Think the top kill is going to work?

 

[roy22341]

Honestly, industry wide its usually a 50/50 thing. I'm not in well control (I'm in cementing) but I'd say for a normal well 50/50, for this though, being at the depths they're at - 40/60. But I hope it does.