Well regardless of what's causing it or what it actually is, the stuff that sounds like clipping is really unbearable IMO (mainly when the louder leads are in), so yeah, I'd vote ditching it! And I certainly don't think EMG's are the source of my qualms with the guitar tone (I'm an EMG lover myself), but rather the impulses for the "flatness" of the tone IMO and either the e530 (or how you tweaked it, anyway) or some sort of post eq for the nasaliness of the tone itself. Since you still have your cab and the Randall power amp, how come you don't just do it the old fashioned way?
Backmask - Arrival (Slate + ENGL e530 + Recabinet)
- Thread starter Kazrog
- Start date
New mix is up, same place again. Here's what's new:
- Removed UAD-1 Precision Maximizer from the master buss. WOW, the mix just opens up and there's fidelity again. It's a quieter mix now, more dynamic, and it really suits our music better IMO.
- Removed 2 out of 3 post EQ plugins on the guitars, made the settings on the one EQ more conservative, and the original meat of the tone is back. I definitely overprocessed before.
AudioPhile777
Mathew Cohen
The kit sounds platic-like to me... thats something i've not liked about a lot of Slate's stuff, which is why I was hoping this one would be different...
The only thing i did hear that I liked, tone-wise, was the sample i heard of the Zeppelin kit... obviously not for metal, but it genuinely sounded good... everything else sound like its has this high end plastic-like sound...
I do dig the acoustic guitars... I, however, don't agree that they are too loud... they sound great over here, especially once everything else joins in...
edit: new mix. on the fade out, the drums lose their plastic sound at around 5:08... don't know if that makes any difference to you...
JeffTD
Senhor Testiculo
I'm just really not buying this part. As much as I respect your opinions, Shane, You've consistently voiced your distaste for DFHS and S2.0 while others continually post clips of them with amazing results. I'm not attacking you or your mixes or anything, I just honestly believe it could sound *that* much better with proper sounding drums.
All of the mixes I've heard that sound great with DFHS and S2.0 involved replacing the kick and snare with something else, essentially just using the ToonTrack stuff for toms and cymbals. If there's an example of pure DFHS or S2.0 that's an exception, I don't remember hearing it.
UPDATE: I had the presence of mind to bounce off a drums-only mix with the S2.0 kit for this song before I sold my copy of the software, so here's the totally objective comparison with the same mix:
I am curious to hear what you guys have to say, not going to voice my opinion on this until I get some feedback. I've been working on this song for way too long and I have massive tunnel vision.
The only mistake is that I forgot to turn off the master fader automation for the fade at the end on the SD 2.0 drum bounce, so the drums fade at the end at twice the rate of the rest of the mix in the SD 2.0 version.
I am curious to hear what you guys have to say, not going to voice my opinion on this until I get some feedback. I've been working on this song for way too long and I have massive tunnel vision.
The only mistake is that I forgot to turn off the master fader automation for the fade at the end on the SD 2.0 drum bounce, so the drums fade at the end at twice the rate of the rest of the mix in the SD 2.0 version.
Zombietakeover
Member
JeffTD
Senhor Testiculo
Kick sure, that gets done without question. All of my stuff with S2.0 so far has had the stock snare, toms, and cymbal sounds, though. Recent bounce:
http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/392637/StabcatoS20.mp3
and a more roomy sound on the cymbals:
http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/392637/DimGroove1.mp3
I don't think you've played with the velocities and cymbal choices enough on the S2.0 clip you posted, tho I do like it better than the Slate drums. Snare is almost inaudible, but my problem is mainly with the cymbals in Slate.
Tell ya what - just so I'm not coming off like a ToonTrack fanboi, if you send me an mp3 of the song without drums and the midi file for drums, I'll bounce down a mix of it with an S2.0 kit I find to work really well on OH's, and we can compare based on that?
JeffTD
Senhor Testiculo
Shane, I just want to be absolutely clear with my comments... my criticism is no way ill-intended or out of any bad feelings I harbor towards you (aka none). I have utmost amounts of respect for you as a musician and writer, as well as a producer.
I've always disliked the drumsounds you use with Backmask, however, because I feel they're actually holding the music back a bit. I find the songs harder to take seriously and listen to as often/repeatedly because of how much better they could be, despite how kickass the songs already are!
I've always disliked the drumsounds you use with Backmask, however, because I feel they're actually holding the music back a bit. I find the songs harder to take seriously and listen to as often/repeatedly because of how much better they could be, despite how kickass the songs already are!
Jeff - I really appreciate your offer and I will take you up on it. I am busy with some other projects right now but I will get you the files in a few hours. No clarification needed - I totally get where you're coming from and I've never been 100% happy with the drum sounds I've been getting either - hence I've been on kind of a quest with drum samples lately.
Thanks for your input, seriously, much appreciated and I will post the files as soon as I can.
Thanks for your input, seriously, much appreciated and I will post the files as soon as I can.
JeffTD
Senhor Testiculo
Ola Englund
Only gay in the village
I think the superior 2 sounds better. I guess that's just a matter of taste but I thought it fits the song better.
I would like to try slate drums though, haven't had a chance yet.
I would like to try slate drums though, haven't had a chance yet.
Nebulous
Daniel
Only managed to listen to the new mix. With all the other comments, I don't feel I could really touch on anything that hasn't been already.
Great song dude!
Great song dude!
Uladyne
Greg
I'm definitely no DFHS master myself, but based on really good mixes I've heard done with DFHS vs really good mixes I've heard done with Slate, I always seem to prefer DFHS. Slate sounds too "sampled" to me. I've been kind of having an issue lately with really "sampled sounding" drums (sampled kicks being an exception). Even classic Fear Factory I've been having a hard time listening to lately because of it, and they've been one of my all time favorite bands since high school.
GarethSE
New Metal Member
- Jul 5, 2008
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The Superior 2.0 mix > Slate mix IMO.
I definately share the sentiment that the S2.0 fits your mix better, it's got more of the epic feel and sound to it. The slate drums sound a bit TOO natural almost, and don't fit the produced (not over-produced, just produced, that's the key) sound of everything else.
I definately share the sentiment that the S2.0 fits your mix better, it's got more of the epic feel and sound to it. The slate drums sound a bit TOO natural almost, and don't fit the produced (not over-produced, just produced, that's the key) sound of everything else.
Machinated
Member
I'm also prefering the Superior 2 sounds for this stuff - I agree too that the snare is too low, and the OH's velocities need some work. The kick actually isn't too bad, but thats not to say blending some samples in wouldn't be a bad thing 
Also, I don't think thats to say that you can't achieve better sounds with the Slate stuff, I think it may just be a case of learning the Slate stuff a little more and working on getting the best out of it. I love your music Shane, but I'll have to agree with what others have said about the drum sounds etc - keep it up though, I'm sure you'll nail it
Also, I don't think thats to say that you can't achieve better sounds with the Slate stuff, I think it may just be a case of learning the Slate stuff a little more and working on getting the best out of it. I love your music Shane, but I'll have to agree with what others have said about the drum sounds etc - keep it up though, I'm sure you'll nail it
smy1
Member
Thanks, guys!
So here's my take on it - I prefer the Superior 2.0 cymbals, but I prefer the Slate Kick, Snare, and Toms. The Superior 2.0 cymbals definitely glue the song better and give it a better "vibe" so I am feeling a bit dumb for selling it...
My strategy going forward is likely to be what I originally thought when I got Slate Drums a few days ago - Slate Drums with DFH 1.0 cymbals. That should really give the best of all worlds for what I am trying to do. Also, there's other Slate kits I can try, it comes with tons of kits and I can get very different sounding results with all of them. The kit I used for this song is the "Cracky Metal Kit."
The problem I had with Superior 2.0 is that the snare was NEVER loud enough, even if I maxed it. No matter what I tried with EQ, compression, transient processing, etc., the S2.0 snare just doesn't cut in a mix. Slate has the best snares of anyone, and to me it's the kicks, snares, and toms in Slate that are the most important advantage. I can always use other cymbals.
If that proves to have unsatisfactory results, I will see what I can do to get Superior 2.0 again from ToonTrack, considering I owned it once, sold it, etc., perhaps they will cut me a deal. I think having Slate + Superior 2.0 would probably be the best possible combination ever. I already regret selling Superior 2.0 but I will see if I can avoid having to spend more money.
PS - Jeff, check your email. I sent you a link to the zip file where I've put the sans-drums mix and the midi file.
PPS - Here's my SD 2.0 preset, if anyone wants it.
So here's my take on it - I prefer the Superior 2.0 cymbals, but I prefer the Slate Kick, Snare, and Toms. The Superior 2.0 cymbals definitely glue the song better and give it a better "vibe" so I am feeling a bit dumb for selling it...
My strategy going forward is likely to be what I originally thought when I got Slate Drums a few days ago - Slate Drums with DFH 1.0 cymbals. That should really give the best of all worlds for what I am trying to do. Also, there's other Slate kits I can try, it comes with tons of kits and I can get very different sounding results with all of them. The kit I used for this song is the "Cracky Metal Kit."
The problem I had with Superior 2.0 is that the snare was NEVER loud enough, even if I maxed it. No matter what I tried with EQ, compression, transient processing, etc., the S2.0 snare just doesn't cut in a mix. Slate has the best snares of anyone, and to me it's the kicks, snares, and toms in Slate that are the most important advantage. I can always use other cymbals.
If that proves to have unsatisfactory results, I will see what I can do to get Superior 2.0 again from ToonTrack, considering I owned it once, sold it, etc., perhaps they will cut me a deal. I think having Slate + Superior 2.0 would probably be the best possible combination ever. I already regret selling Superior 2.0 but I will see if I can avoid having to spend more money.
PS - Jeff, check your email. I sent you a link to the zip file where I've put the sans-drums mix and the midi file.
PPS - Here's my SD 2.0 preset, if anyone wants it.
pifos_2
des scoubidoubidous wha !
What do you do especially on the cymbals velocity in S2.0 ? randomizing it ?
your track sounds really good.
JeffTD
Senhor Testiculo
It's a lot of "thinking like a drummer," as far as lowering velocities in certain places, especially on the ride/hats. 90% of the kit's other hits, besides ride/hats, are 127 the whole time, but I vary that on crashes/chinas/spocks sometimes, as well.
If you think about how a drummer hits, it's always harder on the downbeat - 127 is usually my downbeat it. The other thing to think about is the swing of a cymbal... it's never in the same spot when a drummer is pounding away on it, so some hits are going to come out softer than others.
The rest is just 'groove' and 'feel' based, in all honesty!
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