drew_drummer
Dancefap
What about sitting behind a desk tracking shit musicians knowing that the music is never going to be any better than it isn't.
Band self-induced illusions
- Thread starter Ermz
- Start date
What about sitting behind a desk tracking shit musicians knowing that the music is never going to be any better than it isn't.
JeffTD
Senhor Testiculo
Nowhere near the same sense of destroyed potential or wasted effort - shit bands will always be shit, but knowing something could easily be far greater than it is sucks ass.
I feel that. so many stubborn douchebags, especially at the local level. I can barely stand it anymore.
AD Chaos
MGTOW
- Aug 3, 2009
- 1,602
- 14
- 38
Oh really?
Like Bob Rock telling Hetfield to modify his lyrics into 'Hush Little Baby' and 'Now I lay me down to sleep' lullabies?
All in exchange for some drum compression?
smy1
Member
aramism
Member
i agree with ermz's op...
in addition my other favorite "band self-induced illusion" is that all the drums should always sound like the black album.
my personal favorite question: "can you make the drums sound like "the black album?""
second to "you can auto-tune that right?"
then "can you loop that?"
ah... the music business
in addition my other favorite "band self-induced illusion" is that all the drums should always sound like the black album.
my personal favorite question: "can you make the drums sound like "the black album?""
second to "you can auto-tune that right?"
then "can you loop that?"
ah... the music business
Uros
Sonic Incision
While I agree that artists should be open for suggestions, some of you really should back up a bit.
I can see when some bands are utter crap technically - can't play for shit, ripping off bigger bands - I could see how this commentary can work on those. But, when an artist is really 'pro', meaning they are technically prepared for the recording well, and when they are really confident about their material - the only solution that should be considered is - let them have it their way. It's their record after all. Some mild suggestion can never do any harm, but nothing should be enforced upon someone in any way or form.
I can see when some bands are utter crap technically - can't play for shit, ripping off bigger bands - I could see how this commentary can work on those. But, when an artist is really 'pro', meaning they are technically prepared for the recording well, and when they are really confident about their material - the only solution that should be considered is - let them have it their way. It's their record after all. Some mild suggestion can never do any harm, but nothing should be enforced upon someone in any way or form.
JeffTD
Senhor Testiculo
AudioGeekZine
arsehole know-it-all
If you've been writing an album for years, your head is so far up your ass you can't possibly know if its actually good or not. You might think it's amazing but...
I'm with CFH on this. Bands live in a bubble. Ego and insecurity get in the way of making the right decision or even being objective at all.
I'm with CFH on this. Bands live in a bubble. Ego and insecurity get in the way of making the right decision or even being objective at all.
Uros
Sonic Incision
Bands do live in a bubble. The very same bubble that helps good bands to stay original.
They don't know if it's good or not? Objective? Wtf is that? You guys say that as if music is 1+1=2, which it isn't. Then why bother make music at all, if it needs to be certified by someone else...
I am familiar with the role of the producer Jeff. Metal was always about freedom though, and unlike many pop artists metal bands always used to write their own songs. Good bands certainly don't need someone guiding them as if they were kids.
As I already said, suggestions are cool. But metal producers are not creative directors, their role is and it never should be that big.
They don't know if it's good or not? Objective? Wtf is that? You guys say that as if music is 1+1=2, which it isn't. Then why bother make music at all, if it needs to be certified by someone else...
I am familiar with the role of the producer Jeff. Metal was always about freedom though, and unlike many pop artists metal bands always used to write their own songs. Good bands certainly don't need someone guiding them as if they were kids.
As I already said, suggestions are cool. But metal producers are not creative directors, their role is and it never should be that big.
JeffTD
Senhor Testiculo
you really are NOT familiar with the role of a producer and have apparently never watched any kind of metal studio video.To say that nobody ever needs help or guidance is retarded - we had this argument at the beginning of the thread. An outside opinion can never hurt, and tends to help the vast majority of the time.
Uros
Sonic Incision
Yeah, I definitively haven't watched any studio video ever
.
You don't read. If my basic understanding of English language is right, there is a not small difference between 'help', 'guidance' and 'guiding as if someone is a kid'.
I already said that an opinion and suggestions can't do no harm, which you would've known if you've actually read what I had written.
aramism
Member
yeah i'm with jeff. even the top level artists hire producers to basically go in and to their thing.
it's no different than leonardo dicaprio working with martin scorsese. or tom hanks working with steven spielberg. or marlon brando with elia kazan. etc. etc. etc.
it's no different than leonardo dicaprio working with martin scorsese. or tom hanks working with steven spielberg. or marlon brando with elia kazan. etc. etc. etc.
Uros
Sonic Incision
yeah, because we all know that Dicaprio or Hanks or whatever WRITE their own roles.
Not the same thing at all.
They are merely interpretors, like if you would hire some player to perform your music.
Going the same route you set, producers are yeah, directors, but not writers of scenarios.
Producers are not creative directors nor they ever should be.
Not the same thing at all.
They are merely interpretors, like if you would hire some player to perform your music.
Going the same route you set, producers are yeah, directors, but not writers of scenarios.
Producers are not creative directors nor they ever should be.
aramism
Member
Uros
Sonic Incision
JeffTD
Senhor Testiculo
I read that as "there is a small difference," nobody says "there is a not small difference."My argument stands - pro bands hire producers for guidance and an outside ear because they get inside a bubble when writing. We established this on the first page and had some great insight on the subject from guys who've worked on huge albums. I don't understand why there's still an argument?
::XeS::
Member
A good example is Rick Rubin....lot of people thinks it's an engineering/mixer guy but it's only a producer....it means that he is hired to guide the bands with "outside" ideas...and we are speaking about bands like Metallica, Slayer, etc...same thing was Bob Rock for Metallica.
But assuming we live in the real world where 99% of bands and their bubbles all collectively suck arse harder than a Hoover at a gay midget orgy, that doesn't really end up meaning much.
The producer, traditionally, was the liason between the label and the band. He was the in-between man, making sure everyone's goals, budgets and deadlines were met. In this day and age, at the level many of us work at, it's a different story. The band hire a producer figure to help give them guidance on their music. They don't necessarily want someone to rewrite their music, but rather help them channel it in a relevant way on the record. Helping a band maximize the impact of their music is a role that all of us play, to some degree or other. That degree both depends on what the band needs, and what we are able to provide.
Uros
Sonic Incision
Main reason behind my posts here lays in my experience. Few years ago I had an rec engineer/mix engineer/producer enforcing lamb of god type of sound upon my band, although we were very strongly against that. He just kept pushing. And that's why I am acting this way here, from personal experience. A suggestion is one thing, but shoving down one's throat what you think is 'right' is what I have problem with.
I understand all what you are saying here guys though.
I understand all what you are saying here guys though.
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