Bill Ward Fired from Black Sabbath by...

[-CC-]

 

[Onder]

You still have to have someone to, you know, play the synth. You don't need anyone to play the drum machine.

Actually, no, you don't. It's very similar in principle.

 

[Master_Yoda77]

I like this Panzer Meyer guy.

 

[Panzer Meyer]

Actually, no, you don't. It's very similar in principle.

That shit don't play itself.

 

[Onder]

^ There are pianos like that that play themselves tbh. But that's not the point is it?

You don't even need the whole keyboard thing anyway if you are not going to play it you moron. Same as with programmed drums, you can just type it in your computer studio. It's the same fucking thing. It will sound like shit, but programmed drums and keys (let alone guitars) just do. They miss the organic sound of someone playing them and being actually recorded. That's why bands with a real drummer sound better FYI.

I agree with you to an extent regarding this whole drummer not being the most important in extreme metal thing as a lot of bands first write riffs and then just tell the drummer what tempo the song is in and he adds his beat. The process of composing the song just sort of misses him mostly (he can still add a lot to the sound though). But you can't throw them all in the same bag, there are bands that are actually very rythm-based. Sometimes the drumming even puts the band into a whole different genre.

I'm not sure if what you do is just trying to be provocative or if you're twelve, but I don't want to talk to you. I don't know why I'm replying to this bullshit. Let's listen to this ridiculous MIDI piano instead. This shit does play itself:

 

[Panzer Meyer]

^ There are pianos like that that play themselves tbh. But that's not the point is it?

Player pianos are essentially the equivalent of a recording device or a music box: they're not even remotely a substitute for a musician.

You don't even need the whole keyboard thing anyway if you are not going to play it you moron. Same as with programmed drums, you can just type it in your computer studio. It's the same fucking thing. It will sound like shit, but programmed drums and keys (let alone guitars) just do.

Programmed drums come vastly closer to being the real thing than any synthesized guitar. At least half (probably much more like 90%) of your audience will never notice the difference between actual drums and programmed drum tracks a recorded song. 100% (or something so close as to be indistinguishable) of any audience is going to be able to tell when you're playing synthesized string instruments of any sort.

That's why bands with a real drummer sound better FYI.

There are literally millions of bands with actual drummers that don't sound a tenth so good as Ildjarn and Kraftwerk. As always, it's how you deploy the instruments you use, not the instruments you use. Songwriting is the key, which is why songwriters will always be more important than anyone who just plays.

 

[Onder]

Player pianos are essentially the equivalent of a recording device or a music box: they're not even remotely a substitute for a musician.

Same can be said about MIDI drums being a substitute for a drummer. It's just not as different as you say it is. That's all I'm saying.

Programmed drums come vastly closer to being the real thing than any synthesized guitar. At least half (probably much more like 90%) of your audience will never notice the difference between actual drums and programmed drum tracks a recorded song. 100% (or something so close as to be indistinguishable) of any audience is going to be able to tell when you're playing synthesized string instruments of any sort.

Drums are obviously easier to reproduce now but that's also a technical thing. The numbers you're using to support what you think are completely hypothetical and would change majorly with what music and people you would be using. There are already very advanced sound generators and effects that would confuse many, even regarding string instruments.

There are literally millions of bands with actual drummers that don't sound a tenth so good as Ildjarn and Kraftwerk. As always, it's how you deploy the instruments you use, not the instruments you use. Songwriting is the key, which is why songwriters will always be more important than anyone who just plays.

Well obviously.

Kraftwerk and other electronic bands don't even aim to imitate the real sound, they have so much more space for variety of percussions, so that's quite different to metal bands - who always use a drum machine as a substitute for a real drummer. They almost always aim to imitate the real thing as much as possible (and yes, sometimes they succeed), and what do you think is the reason for that? It's because real drummer sounds good in metal.

Rarely does the substitution sound as good as the real thing. To me drummers were always the part of the band that I paid the least attention to, but I can usually tell if the drums are real or not.

 

[Panzer Meyer]

Same can be said about MIDI drums being a substitute for a drummer. It's just not as different as you say it is. That's all I'm saying.

Drum machines aren't simply a fixed recording though, you can change the patterns on the fly if needed, so it's not as similar as you imply, either.

Kraftwerk and other electronic bands don't even aim to imitate the real sound, they have so much more space for variety of percussions, so that's quite different to metal bands - who always use a drum machine as a substitute for a real drummer. They almost always aim to imitate the real thing as much as possible (and yes, sometimes they succeed), and what do you think is the reason for that? It's because real drummer sounds good in metal.

It's because metal bands inherited their basic instrumental lineup from rock at a time that predated widely available, cheap drum alternatives. You're making a qualitative argument for a phenomenon that is structural/historical in nature.

 

[PhlegethonVeins]

Actually, you can reprogram any MIDI song with synth sounds without a keyboard at all and quite easily set it up to be changeable 'on the fly'. You're arguing for the sake of arguing. The main point on both sides in this debacle is a largely subjective one, but the manner in which your approached and backed up your point renders your opinion meaningless Panzer.

 

[voilenoir]

Was he fired? I thought he left the band.

 

[staffino75]

Yeah, Bill was a fucking beast, a total manimal on the skins. Not regarding him as a significant or equal member is just total idiocy.

couldn't agree more!
to say he isn't an equal partner in the group is idiotic!
and fuck sharon and ozzy, if they had anything to do with this!
fucking cunts!! :Smokedev:

 

[Thralldom]

Anyone who says Bill Ward wasn't an irreplaceable drummer hasn't heard songs like "Supernaut" because there is nothing like his playing on any Sabbath album that has another drummer on it.

 

[Saparmurat_Niyazov]

"Children of The Grave" is another excellent example of Ward's drumming prowess. And this Panzer Meyer guy is officially the new forum retard.

 

[The Butt]

Forum retard indeed.

 

[CF87]

Vinnie Appice will do it.

 

[TechnicalBarbarity]

Ward - who was never a major creative contributor - was demanding a cut of revenues equal to that of Tony (the creative force behind Black Sabbath) and Ozzy (the face of the band as far as the public is concerned), holding up the whole process in a Quixotic (and nonsensical) quest to be treated as an equal of the band's more important members. He was essentially taking a huge payday out of the pockets of the other band members over petty billing demands. He seems to have forgotten that drummers are completely expendable. All he had to do was sign on the dotted line without making unreasonable demands, but he pissed it away on an ego trip.

LOL! Wow ..... just wow.

... didnt know Sharon posted on these boards.

 

[CF87]

If Bill Ward was a cool guy he would reform with the original line up and give the fans a tour and new album. It's simple as that.

 

[Bitencourt29]

No Bill Ward = No true Black Sabbath reunion.

Simple as that.

 

[Thralldom]

If Bill Ward was a cool guy he would reform with the original line up and give the fans a tour and new album. It's simple as that.

Not if he is getting shit on by Osbourne and Iommi, which is easy to believe if you know the two of them and their history of this sort of thing.

 

[SomeGuyDude]

If Bill Ward was a cool guy he would reform with the original line up and give the fans a tour and new album. It's simple as that.

If Tony and the Osbournes were cool they wouldn't insist on relegating him to second-tier status for no good goddamn reason. It's not like it's a monetary issue and they can't afford to pay everyone the same.