Bukowski: marijuana is openly destructive

[Trevor Marks]

As my poetic drunkard hero, i also fully see eye to eye with his opinion on weed smoking. I know their have been classic debates here about it round here, but this bit is worth seeing as well.

and eyy, forgive the sketchy piano music for the first few seconds
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lAhrr7JNlhk&feature=player_embedded[/ame]

 

[Notuern]

.. i would interchange alcohol and marijuana in his video to make sense of it.
Yes, weed will make you a slow dumb ass motherfucker.. while you are high, but stop smoking for a few days and you're back to normal.

Alcohol leaves permanent damage to your brain, liver and kidneys.. you NEVER recuperate from those damages.
This guy is nothing but a drunken moron who is trying to justify his drinking.

And just to make things clear, i have never smoked pot in my life, so im not trying to justify the use of pot, but im not blind to cold hard facts.

 

[Line666]

I think he's very wrong if he's trying to say that somehow long term alcoholics are more lucid than any other substance abusers over a duration.

I've seen people rot away on booze, I've seen mates loose their fathers who were content to sit in their living rooms and spend their welfare cheques on alcohol, content to tell the exact same drunken ramblings for the rest of their sorry days on the planet. It's not anymore pretty and it does destroy people both mentally and physically. Alcohol as a substance actually acts as a depressant to a large degree, it's essentially a poison extracted from yeast piss and the fact that you get a massive hangover if you drink too much alcohol is really your body telling you it does not like what you are doing. I've never seen the same effects for weed, never seen someone come down from weed and go "oh I feel terrible", no, it just doesn't happen. I see people, they're high for 8 hours and then they're back to how they were again. With alcohol, I see people when they're heavily drunk, a lot of them will have a fairly good time, the rest will kick the shit out of each other and they'll all spend 12 hours complaining about how shit they feel later.

Behavioral patterns can be formed around a long term weed habit but that is about it, its not inescapable, if you spend most of your time stoned then that might be the most familiar state of being to you, however, no one dies or gets hurt and nobody looses their fathers, mothers, sisters or brothers and the public doesn't have to fork out on the medical bills when it all goes tits up (I guess not applicable to you people stateside).

 

[drew_drummer]

I've seen my uncle deteriorate on booze and finally die from a fucked up liver and pneumonia.

I had to stop smoking weed after two years of smoking it every day, because I started to get really bad panic attacks when I was high. I'd get really paranoid and feel like I was dying.

So I have some sort of agreement with Bukowski on this.... but not the whole way. Weed CAN be destructive, and often is. But the same can be said with booze.

 

[Harry Hughes]

Alcohol is addictive shit. Yes, it's not like nicotine level of addictive, but unlike pot, people do actually get addicted to alcohol and that's where that shit fucks you up.
Or even just binge drinking occasionally will fuck you.
Went to a party a while ago, I was the only person that didn't drink, but I got high all night. I was just relaxed, chilled out and calm the whole night, just peaceful and meanwhile, there was this chick who slashed her wrists because she was wasted and emotional as fuck, and one of my mate's fucked this chick which he otherwise would never had fucked if he was sober.
Even when I'm high, I still know what the fuck is going on and I never cause any drama or do anything dumb (aside from maybe saying something weird cos I'm high), but it seems people who are wasted as fuck don't really know what they're doing and consequently are likely to do something regrettable and stupid.
When the high wears off, I feel normal and okay, and the next morning I'm fine.
Everyone else is hungover as fuck, and usually that's the least of their problems from the night before.

I'm not one of those guys who is super anti-alcohol (I haven't drank any alcohol for 2 months though), and will have a beer now and then, but I do know from first hand experience it's potential for abuse is extremely powerful
I just can't bring myself to binge drink anymore because of the shit I've done while I've been wasted in the past, and seeing how the actions of others who have binged affect themselves, others and myself

 

[updog]

I've never seen the same effects for weed, never seen someone come down from weed and go "oh I feel terrible", no, it just doesn't happen.

It happens to me immediately after use, and some other people, so yes, it HAPPENS. In addition, these days I can't really stand even the smell of it. But I don't really care, I'm not against it just because it makes me feel bad

Might also be the tobacco that gets mixed in that's fucking with me, that's what people do around here, but I've given up.

I only usually drink on every or every other weekend, I enjoy being drunk with friends but once in a week/two weeks is enough for me

 

[GarethSE]

Tobacco with weed is one of the most pointless things you could possibly fucking do. The tastiest smoke in existence with all the carcinogens from tobacco? No thanks.

But anyway. Cannabis can be extremely addictive on a psychological level, I am living proof. Physically and chemically? Nah.
Although I dare say nowadays I am more addicted to the physicality of smoking rather than the high itself. I feel weird without a pipe in my hands every now and then.

 

[Line666]

It happens to me immediately after use, and some other people, so yes, it HAPPENS. In addition, these days I can't really stand even the smell of it. But I don't really care, I'm not against it just because it makes me feel bad

I can believe this, but I don't think it could be anywhere near as bad as alcohol in this regard. For 48 hours after a moderate to heavy drinking session I honestly want to throw myself off a cliff.

 

[SocialNumb]

Time to bust out the good old:

 

[updog]

Tobacco with weed is one of the most pointless things you could possibly fucking do. The tastiest smoke in existence with all the carcinogens from tobacco? No thanks.

Yeah, but at least that's what I've heard, pure weed doesn't burn as well and keeps extinguishing. Plus those people I know do it are cheap-ass

I can believe this, but I don't think it could be anywhere near as bad as alcohol in this regard. For 48 hours after a moderate to heavy drinking session I honestly want to throw myself off a cliff.

I agree, and in my case it's just intolerance in my system or something, so universally you were right before.

 

[neverpurify]

Man, Bob Ross looks terrible!

 

[Machinated]

i had a mate at school that was totally dependant on weed and HAD to have it every day. doesnt matter that its a mental addiction - the dude would get like seriously angry untill he was high. also by that point his speech had slowed right down to "typical stoner" esque talking and he was generally pretty slow (despite being really bright). dude was actually pretty smart too, studied maths, physics and music tech with him and he went off to uni too.

but still he proved to me how it definitely is possible to get addicted to it, and it can definitely fuck you up. as can many other things.

football is my drug, and its the WORST of all.

 

[Notuern]

i had a mate at school that was totally dependant on weed and HAD to have it every day. doesnt matter that its a mental addiction - the dude would get like seriously angry untill he was high. also by that point his speech had slowed right down to "typical stoner" esque talking and he was generally pretty slow (despite being really bright). dude was actually pretty smart too, studied maths, physics and music tech with him and he went off to uni too.

but still he proved to me how it definitely is possible to get addicted to it, and it can definitely fuck you up. as can many other things.

football is my drug, and its the WORST of all.

Ive said this before in other threads as well, that its possible.. but what the guy needs is help from a psychologist, as his dependency probably is rooted in something else but the drug(Like in most cases.).

 

[amarshism]

I know more people that smoke weed all the time and fail miserably at life than I do alcoholics.

 

[Fragle]

Tobacco with weed is one of the most pointless things you could possibly fucking do. The tastiest smoke in existence with all the carcinogens from tobacco? No thanks.

it's actually very common over here. weed is ridiculously expensive in this area, and i don't know one single person that smokes it pure on a regular basis.
i only did it once, and while the taste is indeed very nice, it's just way too expensive this way, and also the high is way too fucking intense. being somewhat stoned is a fine feeling, but smoking such a large amount of weed totally fucks up your brain and perception.
if you really want to get *that* high, just make some space cookies. really intense, and very cost effective hehe.

 

[Harry Hughes]

Tobacco with weed is one of the most pointless things you could possibly fucking do. The tastiest smoke in existence with all the carcinogens from tobacco? No thanks.

But anyway. Cannabis can be extremely addictive on a psychological level, I am living proof. Physically and chemically? Nah.
Although I dare say nowadays I am more addicted to the physicality of smoking rather than the high itself. I feel weird without a pipe in my hands every now and then.

Call me a pussy, but I honestly cannot smoke straight weed. Physically cannot get that shit down without feeling like I'll both chuck my guts up and totally cough my lungs out. Also get WAY fucked up too.
I guess maybe you have to slowly build up to it by gradually mixing the weed with less tobacco until eventually you smoke it straight, but eh I don't really smoke often enough to be bothered experimenting with it.

I can believe this, but I don't think it could be anywhere near as bad as alcohol in this regard. For 48 hours after a moderate to heavy drinking session I honestly want to throw myself off a cliff.

Same here man.
Last year, I got super wasted, at a party sometime in the middle of March, and had a hangover for the ENTIRE DAY that next day when I woke up.
It wasn't like a super intense hangover (until about the end of the day when the headaches starting getting very intense), but it was one that just wouldn't go away for the entire day.
After a party/drinking session that went horribly wrong in every way imaginable in the middle of 2007, I had what I call the "Deathly Hangover".
I literally just wanted to fucking die, or be taken to a hospital and have nurses put an IV drip in me and just had fluids be put straight into my body.
Two hours sleep plus loads of alcohol, not a good mix.
It would have been okay if I lived nearby, but I had a 2 hour journey home.
Probably some of the worst feeling 2 hours of my life

Glad I've totally grown out of the binge drinking thing.
Especially now that I'm doing weight training, I've found more motivation to stay away from alcohol.

 

[slashvanyoung]

Ah old Hank and his ramblings. <3 Perfect example of what heavy drinking over an extended period will do to you. I'll agree with him on one point though: I'm generally rather around people who enjoy a good drink than apathetic stoners. People who can't handle being drunk and turn into either overly aggressive or depressive pieces of shit, can fuck off though.

 

[AboutBlank]

dunno, alkohol makes me kind of depressed the next day(maybe even 2 days), weed don't do that to me...

But I love to drink(not very often) and party

Imo are discussions about the destructive side of drugs pointless, it affects your life, anyhow.

Some can handle it, some not.

 

[Line666]

Same here man.
Last year, I got super wasted, at a party sometime in the middle of March, and had a hangover for the ENTIRE DAY that next day when I woke up.
It wasn't like a super intense hangover (until about the end of the day when the headaches starting getting very intense), but it was one that just wouldn't go away for the entire day.
After a party/drinking session that went horribly wrong in every way imaginable in the middle of 2007, I had what I call the "Deathly Hangover".
I literally just wanted to fucking die, or be taken to a hospital and have nurses put an IV drip in me and just had fluids be put straight into my body.
Two hours sleep plus loads of alcohol, not a good mix.
It would have been okay if I lived nearby, but I had a 2 hour journey home.
Probably some of the worst feeling 2 hours of my life

I've definitely had similar, I had one where I couldn't even walk I was so fucked up. The worst thing was I had a vomit bucket I'd spewed all into and I had to empty that shit down the sink because the toilet wouldn't flush and so all the shit lining my stomach is choking up the sink and I'm having to get my hands in there to unplug the blockage as it were.

And yeah, I live way out in the country (for another 4 days anyway haha) so when I was coming home with hangoversville it was always a 1 hour long bus ride on a small windy road. UGHH.

I have a whole load of other horrific me being boozed stories, but the truth is I don't drink that often, I just have a habit of overdoing it when I do, I find that I get nothing from boozing or doing substances though, its always a shallow fake feeling of contentedness or something and then the regret next day at the horrible depression, stupid humiliating things I've done when out of it and the time I've wasted either going "Yeaaaah maaan" or just feeling sorry for myself.

So yeah, fuck those things, I don't have much motivation for alcohol in the first place, I'd rather play guitar.

 

[drew_drummer]

Ive said this before in other threads as well, that its possible.. but what the guy needs is help from a psychologist, as his dependency probably is rooted in something else but the drug(Like in most cases.).

Cite these cases, Mr. Vagina belch.