Can I ask you guys a favor?
- Thread starter Ermz
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P-E
Munchkin
Paranoid has an epic low end. The one by Memnoir is a great mix, as is Drones (Untruth). Seems like if you could tame the gluing (especially what it does to the 300 to 700 hz range I guess) and keep the epic low end you've been building the last two years, you'd do the best mixes you've ever done.
The best has got to be the Untruth ones, but I'm kind of biased by the music, it's my favourite out of all of those.
The best has got to be the Untruth ones, but I'm kind of biased by the music, it's my favourite out of all of those.
pitoga
Member
+1000 to this.
I think all of your mixes sound great, but i'm with crillemannen here.
I think ITB tents to sound more "2d" as viewing a picture in front of you, and with your mixes that got more analogue going on, i feel as if there is a new "variable" in game : depth. True, in ITB there is depth too but its more like "presence" than depth. And with analogue i feel as if i could reach out with my hand and grab the different parts. It's kind of more "surrounding".
Hope you understand anything i said.
Anyways i think you should stay true to what is more comfortable to you. It would feel horrible to release something if deep inside me i think i could have made it "better" with another approach.
It could be the songs. The vocalist and bassist were great, no doubt, but on the whole that CD was a salvage job, believe it or not. We had a day to track all the guitars, so there is some seriously loose stuff going on. I recall how hard I had to edit certain things.
Every part of it was a hard-fought battle, and I wish I could say I worked harder at it than anything else, but I've pretty much been busting my ass the same way for most projects I've done since too.
Oh, went through about 30 reamps for this one... that's the sort of luxury I need on most projects these days, but there just isn't time. That's an ongoing factor... not-so-great reamps, and it does contribute a lot to certain records which have more congested mids, despite my best efforts.
to add just a short little (counter) thought to OTB/ITB mixing: for AE's like you who already spent a lot of thought and time in developing an ear, it's IMO more about hunting the best vision for every mix and leave a stronger print with personal style.
i really like the comparison (guitar) take - mix. from a certain point it's all about being the A(rtist) E
wish i was there, soundwise, btw .....
i really like the comparison (guitar) take - mix. from a certain point it's all about being the A(rtist) E
wish i was there, soundwise, btw .....
Jaymz
Stymphalian Productions
Thanks Jaymz.
@26: I've read your post about 5 times and I still can't work out what you're on about
There are some discoveries I'm making with this Nebula cabinet program quest with Unicorn that are really making me want to shy away from using Nebula in the future. Will see how that goes, but I might demo VCC in the short term and see how well my CPU can handle it on the projects.
@26: I've read your post about 5 times and I still can't work out what you're on about
There are some discoveries I'm making with this Nebula cabinet program quest with Unicorn that are really making me want to shy away from using Nebula in the future. Will see how that goes, but I might demo VCC in the short term and see how well my CPU can handle it on the projects.
Thanks Jaymz.
@26: I've read your post about 5 times and I still can't work out what you're on about
There are some discoveries I'm making with this Nebula cabinet program quest with Unicorn that are really making me want to shy away from using Nebula in the future. Will see how that goes, but I might demo VCC in the short term and see how well my CPU can handle it on the projects.
VCC 1.2.3 is absolutely stunning on my XP based machine.......!
IDK how I ever worked without it. Hahahaha. I fucking HATE everything I hear until I throw a VCC channel on almost every track and just one Buss instance on the 2BUSS (per Slate's most recent recommendation...)
EDIT: None of this is in a DRASTIC way by any means (to my ears it is) but it just adds that litttttttle extra something (bit of EQ, Compression and Saturation it sounds like, all of which are SUPER dynamic). I like how the BUSS plug sounds when hit right below it's shitting out point : i.e. distortion on cymbals and shite'...
pikachu69
mixomatic 2000
Been watching Alan Parsons The art and science of Recording (i think that is what it is called) And many of the top engineers he interviewed were asked if ITB or analogue is better, and they pretty much all agreed that it is the person running the gear, not the gear itself these days with the quality of ITB plugs and things. (Although Jack Joseph Puig thinks ITB is a little more 2D) In fact, Alan himself said that if a recording is started in the box, it can be (subjective) better to leave it in the box rather than going through multiple AD/DA converters to use out board and he prefers to keep it ITB as much as possible. If you want to use outboard track it in the way in.
His opinion not mine but I thought it was relative to your situation.
Maybe do a shot out, pick a track, do two mixes, in and out of the box then let us do a blind listen and give you some opinions?
Personally I find ITB works better for metal if some basic compression and EQ is used on the way into the box to help shape the analogue tone before entering the digital world. I like the cleaner transients digital manages to hold on to and the fact digital will not color the sound, unless you want it to.
At the end of the day, digital recording was meant to give us more headroom from extreme quiet to extreme loud and since metal only uses about 1% of the dynamic range availible it is still just a subjective opinion as to what is better, but either option can be over done.
His opinion not mine but I thought it was relative to your situation.
Maybe do a shot out, pick a track, do two mixes, in and out of the box then let us do a blind listen and give you some opinions?
Personally I find ITB works better for metal if some basic compression and EQ is used on the way into the box to help shape the analogue tone before entering the digital world. I like the cleaner transients digital manages to hold on to and the fact digital will not color the sound, unless you want it to.
At the end of the day, digital recording was meant to give us more headroom from extreme quiet to extreme loud and since metal only uses about 1% of the dynamic range availible it is still just a subjective opinion as to what is better, but either option can be over done.
crillemannen
Member
I have been starting to use VCC and PSP VintageWarmer 2 on my mixbus. PSP adds something that VCC don't. So another step in the right direction.
Ermin you should try to do a mix with VCC. Use the Neve emulation from start (it is a most, cause it changes the register quite drasticly) The neve smooths out the high and give t he mix nice stereo field and nice lowend. I like it very much. then i can go a little bit easier on the rest of the tracks.
Ermin you should try to do a mix with VCC. Use the Neve emulation from start (it is a most, cause it changes the register quite drasticly) The neve smooths out the high and give t he mix nice stereo field and nice lowend. I like it very much. then i can go a little bit easier on the rest of the tracks.
grywolf627
Member
LeSedna
Mat or Mateo
I seriously think that even if you may think nebula being like 5% close to the real deal (I honestly don't know, i haven't demoed nebula against VCC) but it's really so convenient it's a godsend.
You might wanna try waves MPX although I really don't know the quality of it compared to the nebula tape programs which seem to be top notch. But it's also so convenient and light.
I honestly found nebula not user friendly to invest myself in it, at least at my level I didn't see any short term improvement. Keep it for when you are after the exact result you are used to (since you've been using it for some time) but try VCC, also because, as you said it, sometimes it's good to forget the obsessive audio perfection research (it's the saint graal of audio production : it doesn't exist) and focus on the artistic emotion.
+1 for the Neve. also, the trident is surprising on any transient rich material. It makes snare pop out more, you might wanna experiement and see if it's good or garbage for you.
@26 : ?
You might wanna try waves MPX although I really don't know the quality of it compared to the nebula tape programs which seem to be top notch. But it's also so convenient and light.
I honestly found nebula not user friendly to invest myself in it, at least at my level I didn't see any short term improvement. Keep it for when you are after the exact result you are used to (since you've been using it for some time) but try VCC, also because, as you said it, sometimes it's good to forget the obsessive audio perfection research (it's the saint graal of audio production : it doesn't exist) and focus on the artistic emotion.
+1 for the Neve. also, the trident is surprising on any transient rich material. It makes snare pop out more, you might wanna experiement and see if it's good or garbage for you.
@26 :
?
crillemannen
Member
Well VCC aren't suppose to be saturate things. It is a console emulation. But PSP WV2 is suppose to be more like tape, and adding saturation. I like it.
try it for yourself
I think those 2 in combination gives the mixes more mojo,glue and depth. Expect no wonders though you still need to know what you are doing hehe.Tried waves Tape today but i didn't like it that much. Perhaps it could work on certain things like drums bass etc. But not on the mixbuss atleast not for me.
Mago
Austrian Blech Machine
yeah true, they sound a bit harsh.
still also an awesome production
maybe you should read through your "there is no perfect mix" thread again Ermz
gabriel g.
Member
everything sounds good and very professionel.
the untruth track is well balanced but flat and to hot mastered...
the untruth track is well balanced but flat and to hot mastered...
@26: I've read your post about 5 times and I still can't work out what you're on about
well, ha ha, sometimes the most fascinating thought construct becomes completely redundant the next second.
i'm not so sure anymore either.
must have been something about the balance "style" vs "audio quality".but i do remember that it led me to another theory about how the musical horizon of an AE affects the way of mixing, that i'll try to post a better worded version of, if it's finished.
yeah......funny times here. :Spin:
Pedro Teixeira
Member
Having a mix that fills the whole spectrum and technically "flat" sucks. Don't take this the wrong way, the Untruth mix rules, but the other ones have much much more vibe, which I think that's what you were trying to go for as well right?
Being technically perfect is not ideal in any way, although I understand everyone tries to achieve that, human characteristics, but Ermz, your Mnemoir stuff for example, sounds so vibey, so alive, why would you care if it's a bit more middy than the "untruth" ep?
You're a big fan of CLA right? You have noticed as well how broadband limited they are in the frequency range (4k and pure outboard come into play obviously) but everything is exciting and so alive. I was even listening to a record mixed by him the other day and there were so much "mistakes", gates, some editing, etc and who cares? It doesn't KILL the music, that's what matters.
Everything has its place, be it super analytical, super vibey or in between, there's room for everyone, you just have to compromise sometimes and stop being so self critical and seeing this so objective, take a bit of a seat back and enjoy music as a whole.
Your work already kills mate, you just need to realize that as well and stop running around in mazes inside your head, which I totally understand as I'm the same most of the time.
Sorry for not really adding anything objective, just wanted to possibly come across with a slight different perspective
Being technically perfect is not ideal in any way, although I understand everyone tries to achieve that, human characteristics, but Ermz, your Mnemoir stuff for example, sounds so vibey, so alive, why would you care if it's a bit more middy than the "untruth" ep?
You're a big fan of CLA right? You have noticed as well how broadband limited they are in the frequency range (4k and pure outboard come into play obviously) but everything is exciting and so alive. I was even listening to a record mixed by him the other day and there were so much "mistakes", gates, some editing, etc and who cares? It doesn't KILL the music, that's what matters.
Everything has its place, be it super analytical, super vibey or in between, there's room for everyone, you just have to compromise sometimes and stop being so self critical and seeing this so objective, take a bit of a seat back and enjoy music as a whole.
Your work already kills mate, you just need to realize that as well and stop running around in mazes inside your head, which I totally understand as I'm the same most of the time.
Sorry for not really adding anything objective, just wanted to possibly come across with a slight different perspective
Some food for thought there.
I largely agree with you Pedro, but it's sometimes hard to reconcile the vibe gain coming at the cost of fidelity. I'm still looking for that ideal middle ground. I have a feeling that VCC will sound more clean and digital than Nebula does, which in turn may help keep some size and transparency in the tracks. I'm hoping I have enough actual outboard gear to still keep that 'glued' and 'deep' character to the mixes.
Regarding the Neve on VCC... any reason you guys use that? In most cases I found Neve gear to be very low-mid heavy, and not very open sounding. The 4k is usually about as heavy as I want to go for day-to-day saturation.
I largely agree with you Pedro, but it's sometimes hard to reconcile the vibe gain coming at the cost of fidelity. I'm still looking for that ideal middle ground. I have a feeling that VCC will sound more clean and digital than Nebula does, which in turn may help keep some size and transparency in the tracks. I'm hoping I have enough actual outboard gear to still keep that 'glued' and 'deep' character to the mixes.
Regarding the Neve on VCC... any reason you guys use that? In most cases I found Neve gear to be very low-mid heavy, and not very open sounding. The 4k is usually about as heavy as I want to go for day-to-day saturation.
grywolf627
Member
Well VCC aren't suppose to be saturate things. It is a console emulation. But PSP WV2 is suppose to be more like tape, and adding saturation. I like it.
try it for yourself
Tried waves Tape today but i didn't like it that much. Perhaps it could work on certain things like drums bass etc. But not on the mixbuss atleast not for me.
Thanks. I've been wanting to try VCC for a while. I remember playing around with the original Vintage Warmer some time ago. Maybe I'll give the newer version a try. I heavily use and love the (very short lived) Conspiracy Plugins buss compressor and saturator plugs. I was so glad to get those things before they disappeared.
Sorry to go OT Ermz!
AgentX
Member
I like "Peace by eye of the enemy" and "Drones", there both amazing mixes but that's not to say the others are not, there all great mixes but I prefer the aforementioned both mix wise and musically!
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