Can I ask you guys a favor?

Ermz said:
Regarding the Neve on VCC... any reason you guys use that? In most cases I found Neve gear to be very low-mid heavy, and not very open sounding. The 4k is usually about as heavy as I want to go for day-to-day saturation.
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Yes, the neve alters the mix quite a bit. Does great things to the stereo image, to the low end and the highs. It also boosts the 120-250hz area and that is why it is crucial that you use it from the start of the mix.

Before i didn't like it because i did some mixing for an hour or two then i threw it on but then it altered the to much. But the last 2 mixes i've done o have had it on the master from the start and been having great results. Great vibe and that is awesome!!!
 
The neve alters the sound a lot of course, it's maybe the least clean of the 4 consoles.

But the whole point is that you know it's there, and as VCC offers the possibiltity to group instances (they communicate with each other), you might sometimes wanna try the SSL on all tracks excepted guitars where you decided Neve sounds good. I wouldn't recommend using too many consoles in a mix, since the whole point is to add the effects and have some coherency between all the tracks, but it's also nice to know if you don't like Neve or any console for one of its characteristics, you might like it for another one (for example I tend to like the Trident on acoustic guitars or percussive elements even if overall i prefer the SSL as a go-to choice).

Also the possibility to choose at which level you wanna push into the consoles across all the tracks or only a group by only turning a knob is nice, especially cause it depends then less on the level you are hitting VCC (it can compensate so that the perceived volume stays the same no matter how hard you increase the "saturation" knob which is more or less an input gain with auto volume reduction. It becomes more or less a magical knob where you choose how much you want the console effect on all of your tracks)

About VCC being cleaner and digital, I really can't tell. I think the difference might be tiny.
 
I don't want to come off as a dick, but i'm really glad that i'm still a newbie and don't have to worry about reaching my "apex" anytime soon. And that I can mostly look forward to just getting better at everything :lol:

I'm not that experienced in mixing, so I don't really know what to listen for, but I think it has very much to do with what music is played/players. I like fast chugging low tuned typical clickclack kick derpslate etc. So i'm more likely to choose something like that as a favorite. I also don't think the average person would notice (or even care) about these small (to them) differences. But that can be discussed, if you want it perfect then that becomes invalid.

Just my 0.109528 NOK :)
 
sorry to sound like a dick Ermz, but this is mental masturbation because your stuff always sounded great.
You know HOW TO MIX! period
yes you can clearly hear difference on some mixes, old (ITB) vs new (analogue), but in the end I can feel your trademark.
Maybe you're tweaking your mixes to make them sound as clearer as an ITB session.
But in the end, as you know, with analogue it takes less time to get thing glued together and mixed well, yeah you loose some high end but I don't think is that much.
And yes, Andy compared to you has changed his sound a lot (less fizz more body/bottom end), I don't hear the very same with you.
But I don't think is a bad thing I just think you like things done in a different way.
I don't know what you mean about the bandwith, you mean stereo spread? how large is the strereo image?
I can tell you what I didn't like that much: Barbed wire metal by Elm street, the rest is great, top notch quality
 
kaomao said:
I don't know what you mean about the bandwith, you mean stereo spread? y
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What he means by bandwith is, theoretically you can fill up the entire spectrum evenly on digital, but if you're mixing on an analogue medium (outboards, but MAINLY consoles), imagine a 4K, will limit the bandwith quite a lot, will emphasize the midrange area in a way we all come to love, which is why generally everyone loves a 4K console.
Basically if you think of the frequency spectrum as a string, that string gets a bit shortened when you're in the analogue domain, since analogue gear isn't really able to reproduce the whole frequency range from top to bottom evenly, while digital can
 
I just came back from holiday and I have listened to no music what-so-ever in the last two weeks, so I have relatively fresh ears so to speak.

I personally like the Untruth mix the least, even though it is my favourite musically. It just lacks what everything else on that list has, vibe. It just feels a little flat and lacking in dynamics when compared to your other mixes.

Notably though, there's really not that much difference between your other mixes overall, but they all have their own signatures which comes through in the performances. Which in my opinion is the goal right? To produce great sounding mixes that show the performances in the best light possible? So in the end any real difference comes down to the performance itself?

I think pedro has it dead on and at the end it's the difference between a 'joey' mix and a 'sneap' mix (if you will allow the metaphor). In my opinion a sneap mix is always superior to a joey mix because of the character and vibe a sneap mix has. I think it's important for a listener to feel connected to the music, and that it so much easier to achieve when there is a real vibe in the mix and in my opinion this is the difference between a good mix and a great mix. The mix can be technically perfect but unless I feel connected to the mix then it will only ever be a good mix and never a great mix to me.

At the end of the day it's down to you and what you want your production to sound like.
 
wutzington said:
Technically perfect mixes don't exist. People listen to songs, not to mixes.
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Since learning about recording I have lost the ability to listen to a song, only to the mix. Well lets say its like a 85% mix 15% song.
While the vast majority of people will listen to the song the good people here are the minority that listen to the mix so the question is justified as we all ask ourselves the same question everyday.
 
kaomao said:
may I ask you erms what did you use for creating that fx you hear in the first seconds of The One (Memnoir)? kind of automated volume swelling.
done by hand or plugin?
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It was a combination of Glitch and manual automation, as well as a radio/distortion plug-in of some sort, from memory. I used glitch for the auto gating, retriggering and tape wind. I automated to all kinds of effects to make it get wider as it got closer to breaking into the song.

Pedro Teixeira said:
What he means by bandwith is, theoretically you can fill up the entire spectrum evenly on digital, but if you're mixing on an analogue medium (outboards, but MAINLY consoles), imagine a 4K, will limit the bandwith quite a lot...
Click to expand...

Yep. Using the console saturation limits your potential information in the sub and super high register. It also creates a particular 'veil' over the mix that can't be EQ'd out, but can sound pleasant and 'glued' on the right music.

The people who say a 4k sounds super sterile, clean etc. are basically talking shit. 9k and the AWS consoles sound very clean, yes, but the 4k definitely has a sound to it.

wutzington said:
When I picture you mixing, you have like 10 plugins on every single one of your 60 tracks and all your outboard running at the same time, meticulously comparing every single one of the plugs to 3 other ones of the same type, but with different characteristics, trying to make it sound like stuff you already heard 20000 times before, but still inevitably leaving your own footprint.
Working like this would border on a nightmare for me. No committing to tones before mixdown, no "if it sounds good it is good", but looking for something "perfect" that does not exist.
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Sort of. I do get neurotic towards the end, but it's mostly to ensure that the low-end is as good as I can get it, as well as most of the general balances. Automation and FX is something I commit to easily... and the first 80% of tones I commit to all the time. I print my outboard before the mix starts, after all. It's that final 10 to 20% where I really fist myself.
 
in malice's wake and eye of the enemy are my faves....they both seem to fit the music best imho. untruth is a good mix but somewhat unexciting. not really feeling the other ones....good mixes for sure, but they don't quite seem to match the music, imho at least.
 
Sure you don't just like fast thrashy stuff, Fragle? Those two are by far the fastest records I've done! hehe.

@wutzington: The rough mixes done for mix competitions and other occasions on this board are an example of that. All done in a few hours, I think.

Still have a few of them around.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/285689/death-metal-mix5.mp3
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/285689/Cecile-20.mp3
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/285689/MissTemptation-4.mp3
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/285689/Forum/Fortin Natas Song 12.mp3

Rough around the edges, as you'd expect.
 
Ermz, the only thing I could suggest is to not beat yourself up too badly over things. It's really easy to second-guess yourself & you can wind up being your own worst enemy.

FWIW, I really like your work. Don't forget to enjoy it.
 
Pedro Teixeira said:
What he means by bandwith is, theoretically you can fill up the entire spectrum evenly on digital, but if you're mixing on an analogue medium (outboards, but MAINLY consoles), imagine a 4K, will limit the bandwith quite a lot, will emphasize the midrange area in a way we all come to love, which is why generally everyone loves a 4K console.
Basically if you think of the frequency spectrum as a string, that string gets a bit shortened when you're in the analogue domain, since analogue gear isn't really able to reproduce the whole frequency range from top to bottom evenly, while digital can
Click to expand...

Ha ok got it ;)
thanks ;)
 
Ermz said:
Sure you don't just like fast thrashy stuff, Fragle? Those two are by far the fastest records I've done! hehe.
Click to expand...

well, orpheus is pretty fast too, but - at least to me - has too much of a radio-rock sound, which doesn't really fit the thrashy vibe of the music.
what i like about the 2 mixes i mentioned is that have a sort of "digital clarity" if you know what i mean, paired with some analogue glue that adds some character and (slight) dirt. that's what the untruth mix - while being a great mix - is lacking too my ears, just a bit of character and personality.
the other ones are full of dirt, glue, everything analogue basically, but lack some aggression.
i got to say though, i really like the 3d-ness and spacial depth of the more recent mixes.
just my personal opinion.....maybe you should try to find a middle ground, starting ITB and then adding some analogue vibe to enhance the character and personality of the song, instead of going all the way on every project.
and btw, not trying to talk shit about your work by any means, those mixes are all great in their own way :)
 
Wrote a big reply up, but the forum went down.

Anyway, I've already started looking for the middle ground. Some of my latest stuff like the In Malice's Wake album has a lot less severe analog stuff going on. The drums are 9k to retain the transients and tickyness, the use of outboard compression is minimal. It's a bit difficult to find the ideal middle ground, because the saturation is either 'on' or 'off', there is no in-between. The saturation is the big player when it comes to how the mixes gel together.

The gist of the post I just lost was that as great as sterile metal recordings like TWoAF are, as a listener I still prefer to hear stuff like Underoath's 'Disambiguation' (production, not music), Korn's 'Untouchables', Tron - Legacy, AIC - Black Gives way to Blue etc. There is a surreal quality to the analog saturation that just doesn't happen with the digital stuff, and I think it creates a more timeless listening experience.

@Glenn: Thanks for the kind words. I know it's very easy to defeat oneself with overthinking, but I'd like to maintain a perspective that stops me from going down the wrong path and following it until it's too late. It's too easy to get disconnected and think you're doing great while you're actually not. Appears to happen with bands all the time.
 
Kind of, yet not really. We're mostly talking about metal music. Both of those are mid-paced rock productions that have room for loose low-end... and that's what they have. Maintaining clarity with those amounts of low-end in metal is a big challenge, and smearing saturation only compounds the difficulty. You can always crank lows or highs, no matter what you're mixing on... but making them relevant and connected to the source material is the challenge.

Also, they both have more of the mid focus that you were hinting at earlier.
 
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