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SSLtech
Joined: 04 Jun 2004
Posts: 1168
Location: Florida (Formerly UK) Posted: Wed Jul 21, 2004 1:48 am Post subject: Spin-off thread: "Death Metal" recording
The subject of the "Heartwork" album by Carcass came up in a different thread. rather than go even further off-topic than even I usually do, I thought I should spin it off to its own thread... here goes:
Quote:
Can you share a little info about this recording ? Maybe which mics you used ? Amps ? I would appreciate everything you still know about this session.
Well, the album sticks in my mind for quite a terrible reason. My father was in his last days, dying of cancer and I visited him in hospital daily. On one occasion I had to take the day off, after the previous afternoon (recording vocals) some of the lyrics had actually made me feel rather sick... None the less, that wasn't the intention (The band are all vegetarians by the way, and one is even a Vegan!) and I regained my composure sufficiently to carry on...
Okay... the album was recorded at Parr Street Studios in Liverpool. Take a look at the link. At the time I was chief engineer there, after Peter Coghlan and I had teched the place from the ground up. The 4-studio 'Amazon Studios" complex had relocated there to the city centre after starting out in Kirkby, north of the city.
http://www.parrstreet.co.uk/
The recording was started in studio 2, on the Neve VR. There are some layout pics on the Parr Street site, studio 2 has excellent visibility from teh control room into the main area (25-feet ceiling height, 2000 square feet inthe main room, plus various acouostic iso rooms) and each of the iso rooms (Stone, Wood and Dead) are 'fanned out' in such a manner that there is direct visibility with the main room.
Drums were cut with the drummer's back to the main control room window, with the usual mic complement, plus the doors to the wood and stone rooms (which he faced) opened to lengthen and 'shape the tone of' the ambience. Parr Street has permanently-mounted stereo PZMs on the walls of all the various acoustic iso areas, so there's easy access to blending the room sound... the mics normal to high-numbered mic inputs on the Neve (49-60)
The session was recorded to 2" (Studer A827) with no NR, at 30ips.
the drummer wore lead velcro'ed-on leg weights to help with some of the faster double-kick parts, and had an assortment of different weights, chosen and switched-out as and when each section required. There was a fair amount of punching in, and the fashion at the time was for 'clicky' kicks (the dreaded "typewriter" kick drum sound!) cutting through the mush of thickly-distorted detuned guitars.
I don't remember much about the Bass guitar, and sadly my assistant -Dave Buchanan- was killed in a car accident a couple of years ago, so there's only myself and perhaps Colin Richardson who might remember and for the time being I don't remember much at all.
The band had demoed some stuff in studio 3 at Parr Street -not many tunes, but a couple- and were happy with the sound inthe small demo room. It had an Allen & Heath 'Saber' console. When it came to the guitar sounds, things ground to a halt. the drums had been cut with 'guide' guitars, just to steer the tune, but when we got to print them for real, we knew there was some work to do.
Bill Steer (guitar) was bothered all the way through the backing tracks that the guide guitar (through his beloved marshall) had been too scratchy sounding. We tried moving the pickup height. We tried different amps (Soldano, 5150, various Marshalls, Dual rectifier, many, many amps!) then we tried different cabs... Nothing sounded as good as the demo sound. We had started with the same combo as the demo, but that was the "scratchy" sound that was annoying Bill... then I had an idea.
This was like making a resonant kick drum by putting two kicks back-to back with no heads in between. I took two Marshall 4x12 cabs. We took the backs of both of them. We took the speakers out of the second one, and we blocked off the holes with plywood and corrugated cardboard, as the closest thing we could find to a 'seal'. This was definately getting boomy, and quite interesting, but Bill still didn't like the top end. It was sandpapery and irritating to him.
As a last resort (after 4 days of trying things out, double-tracking things, seeing if things got better or worse after layering... then erasing everything right away!) we went up to the demo room (studio 3) and took our "Frankencabinet" up with us. We miced up the cab and brought it up on the Allen & Heath. There was our sound. Was it the room? -probably at least partly, but we'd tried 5 or 6 completely different areas in studio 2... ord knows there's no shortage of acoustic spaces there... or was it the Allen & Heath Mic preamps? -Who Knows? Who Cares? -I'm wheeling the Studer upstairs, and we're booking some time in studio 3!!!
The cab was miked as was my custom at the time: Two SM57's, right against the speaker cloth, but one on the center of a cone, one at the edge of a different cone. The two were combined and maybe shifted slightly for maximum summing, or smoothest top end, but that's usually a good starting point. Don't ask me why it works, I've tried to riddle it out, but it works.
Colin Richardson is a twiddler. He likes to fiddle with EQs every now and then. This was a great case in point. We ended up taking a Massenberg Eq and EQing the combined 2-mic signal. The band had initially wanted Bill Steer and Mike Amott to just do one track each, to get away from the "Wall of Thick, mushy guitar", but we ended up doing 2 tracks of each player. Colin wanted there to be a differentiation betwen the two players, other than just slight playing style or inflections, so he put the Massenberg EQ -both channels cascaded in series- across teh buss insert, and he set up two variations that made him happy, which we labelled "Mike and Bill" and we switched one in and the other out as we alternated players. Then we basically went into "factory" mode and printed guitar tracks, 2 of each player per tune.
That was the big part of the album. The rest was just vocals (Trying not to sound too much like the cookie monster!) and mixing in studio 1, which has a 64-input SSL 4000, with my own 'AAD' (Amazon Audio Developments) Equalisers replacing the original SSL 82E02 cards.
I remember more as I think of it, so if you ask anything particular, it might trigger some more memories...
By the way, Parr Street was where a lot of the Coldplay first album was done, then ALL of the second album, and also they just did all of the third (currently unreleased, I believe) album there. Parr Street rocks. The people there are great. -Peter Coghlan is a genius. He won't agree with me of course, -that's his modest nature- but he is.
While many places in the industry are falling by the wayside, Parr Street still manages to keep going. There's no point recording in second-rate acoustic spaces, and unless you need to do something like an Air Lyndhurst string section project, I strongly recommend looking into Parr Street.
Keith
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Kev
Joined: 04 Jun 2004
Posts: 917
Location: Melbourne, Australia Posted: Wed Jul 21, 2004 2:43 am Post subject:
wow keef had something to share ... and he did ... nice and lengthy too.
Is this a SSL 4000E 64 Frame with 64 Channels and Total Recall, AAD EQ, G Series Computer ??
I read the web site
Have we seen this desk before ?
... with you sitting at it ?
Nice space, and if you have the money Keith is right, spend it and go to a room with good acoustics.
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Kev
DIY Factory
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Mark Burnley
Joined: 04 Jun 2004
Posts: 510
Location: Liverpool UK Posted: Wed Jul 21, 2004 10:51 am Post subject:
He,
That's a great post. Me and my friend spent way too much time listening to that record!
...aha, so A+H are the new Neve,
Don't let that get out onto evilbay!
Mark
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Infernal_Death
Joined: 04 Jun 2004
Posts: 100
Location: Germany Posted: Wed Jul 21, 2004 12:47 pm Post subject:
Keith wow thanks for sharing. I just love reading stories about recordings and even more when i love the outcome of those sessions.
Colin Richardson ? This name really rings a bell. I think he also worked with Cannibal Corpse, my "first death metal love" (got a tape from a friend when i was 13 with their eaten back to life album and been hooked to death metal since then).
Keith do you remember which Marshall Bill used ? I guess a JCM 800 ?
Speaking of Marshall amps maybe i am the only one but i always hated the JCM 900. A friend of mine had one and we tried to tweak it to sound good but never got any good sounds out of it. My friend is the type of guitar player that can play circles around most other guitar players but when it comes to equipment is really ignorant. Anyway he now bought a Soldano SL 60 (a SLO-100 isn't really affordable in germany) and SURPRISE now it's Tone-Time
Yeah Kev and you are right. If the outcome should be professional it's time to book a real studio.No gear in the world can replace a set of good ears attached to a experienced producer/Engineer.
However as i am doing this all for a hobby (although a quite serious one) up until now there was never the question to go into a studio as i enjoy doing the stuff myself and i am not planning to release any stuff soon.
And as i am not involved in the recording industry there is no way i can look behind the scenes so i really love reading those reports.
Hmm i really don't have any particular questions. I am already satisfied with everything you shared. If other details come to your mind, please don't hesitate to post them
Cheers !
Oh and Mark there isn't anything like "spending to much time listening" when it comes to Heartwork
Flo
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SSLtech
Joined: 04 Jun 2004
Posts: 1168
Location: Florida (Formerly UK) Posted: Wed Jul 21, 2004 1:42 pm Post subject:
Oh yeah... those monitors in the control room... Quested HM415s.
Roger tends to listen rather than theorise, it can be frustrating when you try and ask him to explaiun things when you get a lot of "I dunno why... it just works" answers, but I suppose it's like My 2x SM57 trick, so I shouldn't grumble!
Basically, with four 15" Volt drivers in each cabinet, the kick drum, the Bass guitar and anything else on that record panned down the centre with lots of LF content, come at you from eight fifteen-inch bass units. It simply sounds better than bandpass boxes, small-cabinet trickery and tiny rooms.
We built the control rooms around a dead-front/diffuse-rear layout, and the stereo imaging is nice as a result, without too many early reflections before the brain can figure out where things come from. This may at first appear unrelated to the initial point of the thread, but if you think about it, the "wall-of-guitar" death-metal is very wide-band, thick noise, with very few cracks that you can squeeze little things like vocals or occasional effects into... stereo positioning to try and make room becomes very helpful, and I find that most rooms that were built along the 1970's/1980's American blueprint of a hard front end and a soft back end, with a 'compression ceiling' that drops to a low-spot at the listening position work wonders at extracting every last decibel of ear-shredding monitor level, but result in a blurred, indistinct idea of where things are in stereo... I liken it to looking through a dirty windshield!
There's a simple test that you can do to illustrate what I'm thinking of with respect to early reflection 'cluster' confusion: -If you and a friend collaborate to try this test, you might see what I'm thinking of:
In a completely dead room, or outdoors in a quiet meadow... essentially somewhere a long way from any hard reflective surfaces... have a friend stand 6 feet (2 meters) away from you, directly ahead of you. Close your eyes (no peeping!) Have him hold his hand out at arms lengh, or half arms length, either to the left or the right, up or down, whatever he wants to do. Have him 'snap' his fingers and hold his hand still afterwards. Now, point to where you think the sound came from and open your eyes, to see how well you did. -How well did you do? -repeat this simple test a few doazen times if you wish, and see what your "hit/miss" rate is, and how tightly you can pinoint the source of the 'snap'.
Now, go into an area the size of a small bedroom, with hard surfaces everywhere, try the same test (okay, trust me... this is the only time I'm soing to tell you to go into a bedroom with someone and close the door behind you!!!) and see how well you do.
If your results are in any way consistent with my own experience, it's far easier to accurately place the source of the 'snap' in a place with no or litle early reflection to confuse the brain.
Now, try it in a large cathedral or church. -You'll probably find that you can still localise the source quite well, even despite a significant 'washy' reverb. -The theory is that the reverb comes sufficiently after the initial signal for the brain to figure out that it's a repeat and ignore it. With hard-front-end rooms, the signal from the monotirs or from a finger snap can arrive so soon after the initial sound, that the brain has more difficulty determining which came first. -If they happened to come from similare directions, it has even more difficulty, and the resultant impression is that it came from "somewhere over there" rather than "precisely there"...
Okay, big digression -perhaps I should start a second-generation spin-off thread! -Anyway, I like the rooms at Parr Street as much for the stereo imaging in the control rooms as for the sound of the recording spaces. The test described above is an easy way to illustrate and assess the one particular aspect (early reflections confusing image localisation) that often bothers me, and as a result of my input while we were building Parr Street, all the control rooms have that same philosophy. Too dead a room is unpleasant, and nobody likes to work in anechoic chambers, so the back of the rooms are more lively, which -as long as there's sufficient distance between you and the reflective surfaces- delays the reflections enough to make it feel more comfortable, less anechoic, but still without confusing the imaging.
Works great for stereo. No idea about how it will translate to surround sources from the rear... probably not too well, -good job that album was in stereo!!!
Keith
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tubejay
Joined: 04 Jun 2004
Posts: 407
Location: Neenah, WI - United States Posted: Wed Jul 21, 2004 3:11 pm Post subject:
Wow, VERY COOL! I spent many a hour listening to that record and all of the records before it (except Reek, which just sounded too horrible). I was a huge Carcass fan from about 90 to 96. I was so into death metal back in the day that I can't listen to it much anymore though. In fact, during that period of time, I only listened to death metal, gregorian chants, and nature tapes to sleep to. Go figure.
I'll have to dig that record out and listen to it again, with new meaning!!
That's fantastic stuff. Many of those Earache Records were fantastic.
Carcass was one of those truly pioneering bands of the genre. I always found it so weird that they were vegetarians. I mean, have you seen the original (not the re-issues mind you) artwork for Reek of Putrefaction and Symphonies of Sickness?? For God's sake, they have a song called "Exhume to Consume"!!!! They were disturbing to say the least. I think my parents are shocked I turned out pretty normal after seeing those cassette/CD covers. Maybe their own cover art made them vegetarians.
I actually saw them live on the Heartwork tour in Milwaukee Wisconsin. They were one of the best death metal bands I have seen live. Most of the time death metal sounds pretty assy live, and they didn't. The drummer was superb too. Ahh the death metal days...
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SSLtech
Joined: 04 Jun 2004
Posts: 1168
Location: Florida (Formerly UK) Posted: Wed Jul 21, 2004 5:58 pm Post subject:
Apart from 'Heartwork', the other tune I did was "Exhume to Consume"! -My first encounter with the band! -I loved it right away!
on 'Exhume', the whole thing was recorded and mixed the same day. It was for a compliation album if I recall correctly, Earache records. It was our first encounter, and there was no producer, just the three band members and me. They stayed quietly and nervously huddled in the back corner of the room (this was in the old "Amazon" studios building in Kirkby) and occasionally huddled together and usually a shy 'delegate' was prodded forward to ask for changes to the mix. I generally tried to relax them and joke about things, but they were generally very nervous and didn;t ask for much.
At one point, the band asked if it was possible to lower the pitch of the 'vocals'. I put it through a harmonizer, and set it to about a fifth down.
-"How's that?"
"not bad... can it go any lower?"
"yeah, it can go down a full octave, but it'd be pretty growly... here..." (and I punched in 0.500 for the pitch ratio... this was on an AMS DMX15-80S). "-How's that?"
"Ah. Better."
[pause]
"er.... can it go any lower?"
"Hmmmm... well one octave is as far as the AMS units go down... further than that and it gets a bit unintelligible.... I can patch it back through the second channel and re-transpose it down even further, I suppose..." (and this I did...) -"How's that"
"Ah.... MUCH better!!"
And with that they returned to the huddle, apparently satisfied.
Now this had had a pretty ruinous effect on the intelligibility of the vocals, which already sounded like they had been sung by the Cookie Monster, so I was now faced with something sounding like glitchy subsonic rumble to get over the "wall of doom" guitar sounds! -I set about hunting with an Equaliser to see if there was anything that might return it to making some kind of sense... after a while, the frowns returned, a huddle was resumed, and finally another delegate was assigned the task of making a request of me... (I found this all a little worrying, but in hindsight, very amusing!)
"Ummmmm..... we were just wondering about the vocal sound.... we were wondering about being able to make out the words...?"
"Yeah, ... wow. -Er... see with this harmoniser it's making it really difficult to make out the words, so I've been trying to bring out the diction or something... I think this EQ is helping a bit, but there's only so much that I can really do without bringing the pitch back up a bit... if you guys wouldn't mind...."
"Oh... you've been trying to make it more audible?"
"yeah.... I mean... of course...."
"Ah.. -can you take the EQ out and see what it sounds like?"
"sure [click]..."
[together]"Ahhh... MUCH better!!!"
"Howzabout if I go the other way with it?"
"Ah... Perfect!!!"
-I shrugged, and just did what they wanted after that...
Never heard from them for a while afterwards. I remember joking to my guitar playing friend that evening about this killer, shredding Riffmeister guitarist that I'd recorded that day, and how they didn't want the words to be too audible... but that they simply rocked. The session stuck with me.
A few months later... maybe a year or so, I don't know... I'm reading in the Daily Mirror about some kids in Atlanta Georgia who were arrested in the process of digging up a grave, one of whom had a copy of the compilation album on cassette in his pocket. The paper made a big deal about a track on the album called "Exhume to Consume"... it was like that moment in "the Fisher King" where Jeff Bridges realises that he was resposible for triggering a mass murder spree...
I love the band. There was a conscious effort on 'Heartwork' to make the sound more 'expensive' without making "selling-out". Reference stuff was Pantera, Alice in Chains and a few other artists who have names which always have -and always will- make me laugh... like "Fudge Tunnel"...
Ah.... the more I think about it, the more I realise how fantastically lucky I've been. I've never truly mastered anything I've ever tried, but I've had some moderate success, and along the way I've had a staggering amount of fun.
May I never grow ungrateful.
Keith
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SSLtech
Joined: 04 Jun 2004
Posts: 1168
Location: Florida (Formerly UK) Posted: Wed Jul 21, 2004 6:09 pm Post subject:
Oh.. and well spotted Kev...
I'm the ugly one with no sleep and a red sweater, wondering how to move to America without anyone noticing!
Keef
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tubejay
Joined: 04 Jun 2004
Posts: 407
Location: Neenah, WI - United States Posted: Wed Jul 21, 2004 6:25 pm Post subject:
That's hilarious, Fudge Tunnel was one of my favorite bands at that time too. They're one of the few bands from that era that I still listen to on occasion. They're allso one of the few bands that I didn't consider death metal, and yet still liked them. Their version of cat scratch fever is top notch!
Exhume to Consume was also on Symphonies of Sickness. That's so funny that you pitch shifted that. You have NO IDEA how many people here in Appleton Wisconsin spent all of their time perfecting sounding like that without a pitch shifter. I have a friend, who makes those gutteral sounds absolutely perfectly. When he sings, he inhales to get that effect. Weird. When I played my first concert with my death metal band, called Malformation (I was 13) the engineer tried to put a pitch shifter on our singers vocals, and we FREAKED out on him. We thought that was the ultimate sin, like cheating. Who KNEW THAT CARCASS WAS DOING IT?!?! Absolutely hilarious!!!
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Greg
Joined: 07 Jun 2004
Posts: 338
Location: New Orleans, LA Posted: Wed Jul 21, 2004 6:36 pm Post subject:
If an Allen & Heath Saber is the new Neve, then I'm a very lucky man !!! I was actually thinking about trying some mods on my A & H Saber, but I'll post in The Lab if I'm actually going to do it.
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Capstan Recording
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NewYorkDave
Joined: 04 Jun 2004
Posts: 1809
Location: New York, Hudson Valley Posted: Wed Jul 21, 2004 6:41 pm Post subject:
My last band (which split in '93) was active when that style was first becoming popular. We were a punk band, but we often found ourselves on a bill with death-metal type bands. Once, we played a gig at a bowling alley(!) and a death metal band opened for us. Their vocals were in the typical "cookie monster" style. I was bowling with my girlfriend as I awaited our turn onstage. My drummer came running out of the lounge and into the lanes. "Dave! Come quick! One of your speakers is smoking!"
You see, since it was a small lounge, we were using our PA only for vocals. It turned out that the Cookie Monster growling had overvoltaged one of the bipolar caps in my homemade crossover and fried it, filling the lounge with the putrid smell of cooked dielectric. My band went on as planned, but with only one bin
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SSLtech
Joined: 04 Jun 2004
Posts: 1168
Location: Florida (Formerly UK) Posted: Wed Jul 21, 2004 6:54 pm Post subject:
Greg,
We modded our Sabers. We took off the links on the +4/-10 jumpers, and soldered the drain and source of some FETs in there. Then we took all of the gates through some 1M resistors to a single switch on the back of the console, which fed either +18V or -18V to all of the gates. That way, the entire console would switch between +4 and -10dB with a single toggle switch.
We also tried a couple of modules with different HF and LF frequencies... just a couple of alternate caps... and the big mod was the custom-hand-wired TT patchbays.
The sabers were wired to DL female sockets, so that any multitrack in the building could be used with any noise reduction in the building, plugged into any console in the building, without there being a lot of downtime.
The mic pre was a simple transformerless design, and switched 'padded' gain for line duties, if I recall correctly. I also recorded and mixed the only project that I did entirely without using *ANY* EQ from start to finish, on that saber. We used great mics, a cheerful approach and ears. If something was wrong, EQ wasn't going to fix it.
"Who cares, it's just a demo!"
Five years and a scrapped attempt at re-recording the same tunes (at Rockfield Studios, no less... Black Sabbath... funny how this all comes full circle!!!) later, the artist ended up releasing those 16-track demos on an album. Good musician. Good mics. Good console, as it happens. The only thing I could do was to mess it up! -Declaring the EQs off-limits was the first step to making sure the damage that I could do was limited!
Keith
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Greg
Joined: 07 Jun 2004
Posts: 338
Location: New Orleans, LA Posted: Wed Jul 21, 2004 7:24 pm Post subject:
SSLTech -
I'll get a little more serious about it when I get back from "tour" on the 7th of August, but a little brainstorming right now won't hurt anything. Since you've had some experience with this board, I'm sure you'll be hearing from me later about this.
Possible mods:
1. Replace some of the ICs in the preamp/eqs? I think they have TL071s in there. Maybe a BB? Analog Devices?
2. Change some of the frequencies on the EQ. I didn't think about that until you mentioned it in the previous post. One thing I dislike is how the LM can't go below 200Hz. And the HPF has a selectable 70Hz and 140Hz. I'm not really a fan of the HPF so it would be nice to mod the LM to get down into the 100s, or lower. I only have three outboard EQs (2 API 550Bs and a Speck ASC), and I often use the APIs on guitars or vocals or a drum buss, so a little more flexibility with the board EQ would be nice. I don't EQ the hell out of things, but I do a good bit of cutting, and the more frequencies I can get to the better.
3. The custom internal patchbay sounds nice, but that's a big job and I'm not willing to do that at the moment.
This is where I'm at now with the idea. I'm going to bring my service manuals on tour and do some studying on the schematics. I've already had to replace some pots and fix a few things so I am familiar with the board. Let me know what you think.
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Capstan Recording
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soundguy
Joined: 04 Jun 2004
Posts: 1482
Location: NYC, USA Posted: Wed Jul 21, 2004 7:58 pm Post subject:
keith-
I gotta say, you are a genius. All my years of recoridng music or working sporadically on sesame street, the similarity between death metal vocals and cookie monster had never dawned on me.
You've officially coined the term.
genius.
dave
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SSLtech
Joined: 04 Jun 2004
Posts: 1168
Location: Florida (Formerly UK) Posted: Wed Jul 21, 2004 9:57 pm Post subject:
Actually the Cookie monster doesn't want PBS to find out about it, but he has a flourishing business as a session "vocal-fixer" for several Death-Metal bands.
Last week, when he didn't show up that day and his agent said he had the flu... he actually flew down to Los Angeles to do the background vocals on the new 'Flaming Corpse' single.
Not that he's the only one. Last week, I had to do some vocal fixes on Mariah Carey's current project... (Shhh.. nobody has told Mariah yet!) and we had Grover come in to do most of it. We had to get Elmo in to do the high notes, but of course he's only available at the weekends because of his schedule.
Cookie monster is easy to get along with, and his fees are very reasonable. His catering requests are also predictably easy... -no surprise there. All you need to have a productive session is a U67, some lava-lamps, and a mixed tray of chocolate-chip and oatmeal/raisin... the white chocolate/macadamia nuts are not so good for his larynx, so we keep them hidden until after the work is done!
Elmo can be quite a sweetie, but keeping grover away from the Bourbon can be a full-time struggle for up to four people... that's why he doesn't get as much work these days I suppose. It's also important to keep him away from the red light district the evening before the gig...
Keith
PS... I'm going to hell for this post!!!
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Last edited by SSLtech on Wed Jul 21, 2004 10:02 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Anyway, I've had this little post from another forum copied to my hard drive for awhile now, but haven't had a chance to post it elsewhere. No one else would really care to read it, but this forum should be different. It's long, I apologize, but worth it. The engineer for the Heartwork recording process gave a run down of how it all happened, so gonna post it for ya'll to read. I don't know how I got this, someone gave me a link, but it's from the Prodigy Professional forum. I copied all of it because there is some other tech talk some of ya'll might find interesting, gear talk and whatnot. I'm very very new to recording, so it dosen't make a lot of sense to me, but hopefully it'll be more interesting to the rest of you techies!
