China Spot Mics

[Ermz]

Hey guys,

What's the best method you've found to spot mic China cymbals?

Whenever I've done it, they've been pervaded by a wooshing, phasing type of sound as the cymbal tilts back and forth. What distance and positioning creates the best sounds for you?

 

[AEL89]

Recently used an SM7, from underneath, around 3 foot away. It was quiet in the mix but it added some width.

I'd be tempted to use something darker next time. A beta 57 or an md441 on hats works well so I'm sure it would be cool on china too. On the flipside a 184 or a 451 would sound nicely shimmery too.

 

[crillemannen]

Do you really need one?? The ones i've recorded has bleed quite much through all the other microphones. It is even worse then the freakin Hihat haha.

I guess you need to have quite a distant between the mic and the China, because as you wrote the phasing,whoosing issues. Perhaps a single sm57 would do just to capture it and make it stand out a little bit more in the mix.

 

[Ermz]

I like the extra fatness and solidity that a close-mic adds. I don't use it too much, but sometimes the china is good to emphasize.

I'm mostly asking about distances and angles rather than mic choice.

 

[luismars]

To get fatness and less high end than usual try to put a cardioid or supercardioid pointing away from the kit under the zone between the bell and the edge. The point is to use the polar pattern in your own benefit and somehow EQ with the mic.

 

[Harley Barley]

current session im using a C1000 and its working great although the drum has a bit of an odd china

 

[Wisheraser]

First off, I can't believe I'm about to give YOU advice but this might solve your problem. If you want to get rid of the phasey/wooshing sound, just look at where the drummer is hitting the china. Then aim your mic at a spot 90 degrees left or right from that. This way you're micing the most steady part of the the cymbal rather than one of the "rise and fall" points, which should completely get rid of your phasey sound.

For distances, I usually stick to 1.5 - 2 feet.

 

[nwright]

I spot miked all the cymbals solo or paired on our drummer's kit for our upcoming EP. I did it more out of curiosity than anything, but I ended up digging it.

I was concerned about positioning the mic not not have the whooshing on a smaller china, so I kinda did what wisheraser said. our drummer hits right on the bottom of the cymbal and I miked more in the center of the china, pretty much right where the felt is (just to the left from drummer perspective). since it's centered to how he hits it, it sees the least amount of movement and created the most consistent tone. I miked pretty close, though, too, which would make the movement even more pronounced. But it sounds just fine. I was worried also because this china sits on a spring "arm" that the screw/felts attach to. I've never seen anything like it, but our drummer said it keeps the cymbal more secure and clear sounding by not allowing any movement or rattle at the point of attachment


Proof...the china above the second and third toms...I'm sure the setup and/or miking is sacrilege on here, but meh, I liked it. Miked the big bell ride from underneath, too. Complete isolation and killer sound.

 

[egan.]

I keep mine centered on the cymbal (minimizes whoosh and maximizes isolation) and start at 6" and pull it back until the phasing goes away.

 

[C_F_H_13]

I keep mine centered on the cymbal (minimizes whoosh and maximizes isolation) and start at 6" and pull it back until the phasing goes away.

+1

Unless the drummer is an asshole and his china is basically pointing straight up and down, I just take a SDC and point it dead center and move back till wierd phasing stops as well.

 

[Aaron Smith]

I haven't tried the centered/straight down approach, sounds interesting though. I typically put an SDC centered more or less, but then angle it towards the edge opposite from where the drummer hits it, and away from the rest of the kit as much as possible (for isolation), until the phasing stops. The height kind of depends on how much the china is actually wobbling, but somewhere in the range of 12"-16" is about right.

I'm going to try the centered/straight down approach next time, but I've always felt like the crispness that I like in a china sound originates more from the edge of the cymbal than the center, which is why I've always aimed for the edge.

 

[drew_drummer]

I kind of like the phaseyness you get from spot-micing cymbals. I tend to high-pass them heavily. But it can add character. Otherwise dead on centre and 2 feet away is a good rule of thumb.

 

[abt]

First off, I can't believe I'm about to give YOU advice but this might solve your problem. If you want to get rid of the phasey/wooshing sound, just look at where the drummer is hitting the china. Then aim your mic at a spot 90 degrees left or right from that. This way you're micing the most steady part of the the cymbal rather than one of the "rise and fall" points, which should completely get rid of your phasey sound.

For distances, I usually stick to 1.5 - 2 feet.

This actually makes perfect sense when you think how a cymbal moves.

 

[Charles J]

I haven't tried the centered/straight down approach, sounds interesting though. I typically put an SDC centered more or less, but then angle it towards the edge opposite from where the drummer hits it, and away from the rest of the kit as much as possible (for isolation), until the phasing stops. The height kind of depends on how much the china is actually wobbling, but somewhere in the range of 12"-16" is about right.

I'm going to try the centered/straight down approach next time, but I've always felt like the crispness that I like in a china sound originates more from the edge of the cymbal than the center, which is why I've always aimed for the edge.

Spot on what I do as well, Aaron.

Defo interested in CFH's and egan's technique, though!

 

[Ermz]

So I tried micing the dead center point of the china to avoid the phaseyness, but it sounded like shit. Edge mic'ing just sounded far better both solo'd and in context with the drum mix.

What I ended up doing was basically along the lines of what Wisheraser suggested, and just miced the edge on the 'pivot' point, to catch the least amount of movement possible.

You can see how it ended up on one of the pics here: https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.213970372001123.54906.123065227758305&type=1&notif_t=like

 

[ZanetheVocalist]

Keep in mind that a tight china will move less but sound more choked. if you're in a pinch you could always tighten it a little to get rid of some sway.

 

[ahjteam]

I like the extra fatness and solidity that a close-mic adds. I don't use it too much, but sometimes the china is good to emphasize.

I'm mostly asking about distances and angles rather than mic choice.

I used this in the last session last weekend and almost without processing the drums sound like this.

Röde NT5 pointing at the center of the china and in ~30 degree angle, hard to say about the distance, about 1-2ft?

 

[gabriel g.]

any small condenser one meter over the china pointing straight down.
So you wont have phase shit and stuff.

Mute it when the china doesnt get hit otherwise that extra mic can shift the stereo field and make the OH sounds strange