Oh's mics placement (Jens Bogren video)

Would that matter if the two mics are hard-panned though? (unless you're in mono, but honestly...fuck mono :lol: )
If you consider phase as a part of the stereo image, absolutely.
If you are spot micing, that's different obviously.
In fact, you can create a stereo image by using phase only and not volume.
For example, put any mono signal into your daw pan left, duplicate and pan right, then delay the copy by 1.26 ms .
You should hear the signal panned to the left, while the volume is the same on both sides.(with a proper monitor placement)
 
Because lowering the fader only sorts out the level difference, not the time of arrival difference.

In other news, the sun rose today Trev :D But again, I don't see why that would matter if you're hard-panning the OH's (and don't care about mono compatibility) Neither is desirable, but I think I'd prefer to sacrifice the mono comp. rather than an imbalance in room sound

EDIT: However...

If you consider phase as a part of the stereo image, absolutely.
If you are spot micing, that's different obviously.
In fact, you can create a stereo image by using phase only and not volume.
For example, put any mono signal into your daw pan left, duplicate and pan right, then delay the copy by 1.26 ms .
You should hear the signal panned to the left, while the volume is the same on both sides.(with a proper monitor placement)

This I did not know - interesting! (not at home now so I can't check, but why 1.26 ms?)
 
This I did not know - interesting! (not at home now so I can't check, but why 1.26 ms?)
Because, the distance between two human ears is generally about 17 cm = aproximatively 0.63ms.
0.63 x 2 = 1.26
Try it when you get home.
 
But which is the difference from spot micing (with only 2 oh's) and spaced pair?
You try to avoid phase differences by micing closer, probably applying the 3:1 rule here.
So it is more about combining and panning mono sources.
 
well with just one kick I always do this:
Kit%208.gif

(taken from here->http://www.sae.edu/reference_material/audio/pages/placement.htm)

even andy did some micing like this, I don't remember if it was when he he was tracking Andols from the roadrunner anniversary cd or resurrection sessions.
 
Don't know....it used 4 OH mics....one is pretty out of the kit, in front, probably for the 2 splashes....don't know if it's the same of the scheme because Andols kit is pretty symmetrical
 
Single kick setup with mics equidistant from snare...
ohmic.jpg


Yes, distance A is longer than distance B. But distance C and distance D are the same! Might look like the one on the drummer's right is farther away but it's not, because the one on his left is raised higher, like I was saying. This is at jval's place and I know he measures from snare to overheads, so they are definitely equidistant.

And raising the mic doesn't change the direct/room ratio. We are comparing them to the SNARE. They are the SAME DISTANCE from the snare. So they are picking up the same (just about anyways) ratio of direct/room sound. If you left the mic on the drummer's left lower, it would be CLOSER to the snare, so then you would get an unbalance because the snare would sound more direct in that mic...

This isn't that complicated. Yes there are always compromises, it's never going to be perfect. But as long as the capsules are equidistant from the snare and pointed at pretty comparable angles, you are going to have your snare centered in the overheads. Ever heard of the Glynn John's method?

48836d1200605635-glyn-johns-technique-p1020810-medium-.jpg


You know what that gives you? A snare right in the middle of your stereo image, because the mics are the same distance from the snare. This is an extreme example of what I am trying to explain about the height thing. You just have to make sure they are the same distance from the snare, ignore whether it is horizontally or vertically.

I don't know how many of the naysayers here actually are micing drums on a regular basis, but I will tell you in my experience, the left overhead is always higher than the right to compensate for the distance from the snare and my snare always sounds centered with no discernible difference in cymbal detail or room ambience between the left and ride sides.
 
Yeah I get it. Thank you for the pics.
Basically is what I do every time (trying to separate the 2 zones, and mics equidistant from the snare)....I had those doubts because this way the "picture" is way uncentered and twisted than a simple 2 kicks setup.
Compromises...exactly.
 
you say this gets the snare in the centre of the mix but what happens if one cymbal is louder? I really don't worry about where the snare is etc, I go for how the cymbals sound and I've never had an issue with phasing. The worst situations I've ever had to deal with on a mix has been x'd pairs behind the drummers head, I hate this technique.
 
Yeah, if you listen to a lot of multitracks (two extreme examples that come to mind are Devildriver and Paramore), the snare is waaaaaay left, but the close-mics are so high up that that's really just decay, and you don't notice it in the mix.
 
Thanks Andy. You confirmed what I thought.... that pro's don't brother too much about the snare placement with the oh's mics :)

In all fairness you're talking about someone who filters the overheads quite drastically, so most of the snare sound comes from the direct tracks.

There are many 'pros' out there who get a decent amount of their snare sound from the overheads. I don't think it's a matter of throwing away one method or the other. Just use what works for you and the project.
 
In all fairness you're talking about someone who filters the overheads quite drastically, so most of the snare sound comes from the direct tracks.

There are many 'pros' out there who get a decent amount of their snare sound from the overheads. I don't think it's a matter of throwing away one method or the other. Just use what works for you and the project.

Yeah of course Ermin. There is not only one rule