swayn3rd
h4x
- Jul 19, 2006
- 335
- 1
- 18
If Into Eternity would give another band a chance to open. :{
BTW, The new album fucking slays HARD.
Circus Maximus- "Isolate" ( a 2,272 word review)
- Thread starter Harvester
- Start date
If Into Eternity would give another band a chance to open. :{
BTW, The new album fucking slays HARD.
Braxil
Member
Dark One
The Tainted Dogma
lasercd
Man Behind The Curtain
Shame, shame, shame...
Now I guess we know who the downloaders are among us...
I get promo CD's from a 2nd undisclosed source for review purposes. Meaning the promos go out to someone else then go to me for review. I do CD reviews under an unknown "alias" at a fairly known webzine to avoid ppl being biased (whether positive or negative) of my user name(s). Now sometimes they are slipcase promos, and sometimes they are printed artwork with CD-R's but I just get them and review them.
I also get promos directly (none from Intromental, or AFM Records though unfortunately) from many labels since starting my radio show almost a year ago. After months of nagging Ive finally got a source in Italy for Frontiers Records promos (which has sent out Circus Maximus, and David Readman promos).
Just trying to point out that its not always the case.
Pellaz
Tigron of Immanion
biggs0072000
Who drops crackers?
Hey, I like opening my Christmas presents during Thanksgiving dinner.
but on a serious note, I'll defenately be purchasing Isolate when it's in CD format. I just need something to listen to untill then.
but on a serious note, I'll defenately be purchasing Isolate when it's in CD format. I just need something to listen to untill then.
General Zod
Ruler of Australia
Shame, shame, shame...
Now I guess we know who the downloaders are among us...
Ken,
I'm curious to hear your perspective on this. I don't buy a t-shirt without trying it on, I don't buy a car until I've driven it, I don't buy sunglasses until I've seen how they look on my face. Why are we supposed to extend some mysterious level of trust to the record industry and buy their products blind? Even if you reject the comparison of tangible goods to art, within the art world, I don't buy a painting, a photograph or a sculpture without first seeing it. Again, why do record labels believe they are owed some unparalleled degree of faith from the consumer?
Zod
Using that logic, you would go see a movie for free. Then you would only pay for it if you enjoyed it.
Do you goto concerts without a ticket, and then buy a ticket to help the artist only if you liked their show?
I say we try this concept with ProgPower [/sarcasm]
Do you goto concerts without a ticket, and then buy a ticket to help the artist only if you liked their show?
I say we try this concept with ProgPower [/sarcasm]
Tess
Member
Unfortunately, not everyone is as honest as some and they never buy the CD even if they DO love it. They don't see or maybe care how it hurts the artists and the industry. They download everything they can for free and that's what sucks. If you try on a shirt and you love it.....you buy it. You can't take the shirt without anyone knowing and keep it (well unless you steal clothing too) but it's a lot easier to steal music.
dcowboys311
Member
Movies and concerts are one-time deals. Things like t-shirts, cars, sunglasses, and CDs have a much longer lasting value.
lasercd
Man Behind The Curtain
Zod:
I consider myself (and my company) agnostic relative towards downloading. I have no direct evidence that it hurts my business that's why you will rarely (if ever) read a comment from me. I worry about the things I can control - I have no time to contemplate the things I can't.
One would hope that everyone that downloads an album ultimately buys a hard copy of it - if they decide it's something they want to be a permanent part of their collection. The reality is - we know that isn't true. There is a percentage of the downloading public (quantity unknown) that download music and are simply satisfied to own an mp3 of the album. They are not supporting the artist, they are not supporting the label - all they are doing is stealing and feeding their habit.
Is that 10%?, 45%, 5% - I don't know. I also don't waste time worrying about it. For me the answer will be obvious. I deal in music that satisfies a niche market. There is virtually no room for anything other than modest growth at best. In all likelihood we are talking about a static market. With the occassional exception, sales for our releases have been fairly consistent for years now. The problem is our expenses are increasing and we can't pass that along to the consumer so it makes it harder.
One thing that I do know - if I detect an overall permanent decline in sales I'll know it's time to shut down our labels. Luckily for now there is enough of a fanbase for our labels that have enough of an "unparalleled degree of faith" in what we do that it is not an issue.
I have lots of other thoughts on this but it comes down to the same old arguments pro and con, so there is no point wasting bandwith. Its a subject that has been beaten to death and no one is going to have a revelation and jump into the other camp.
Downloading is now a part of our culture. I deal with it.
Ken
I consider myself (and my company) agnostic relative towards downloading. I have no direct evidence that it hurts my business that's why you will rarely (if ever) read a comment from me. I worry about the things I can control - I have no time to contemplate the things I can't.
One would hope that everyone that downloads an album ultimately buys a hard copy of it - if they decide it's something they want to be a permanent part of their collection. The reality is - we know that isn't true. There is a percentage of the downloading public (quantity unknown) that download music and are simply satisfied to own an mp3 of the album. They are not supporting the artist, they are not supporting the label - all they are doing is stealing and feeding their habit.
Is that 10%?, 45%, 5% - I don't know. I also don't waste time worrying about it. For me the answer will be obvious. I deal in music that satisfies a niche market. There is virtually no room for anything other than modest growth at best. In all likelihood we are talking about a static market. With the occassional exception, sales for our releases have been fairly consistent for years now. The problem is our expenses are increasing and we can't pass that along to the consumer so it makes it harder.
One thing that I do know - if I detect an overall permanent decline in sales I'll know it's time to shut down our labels. Luckily for now there is enough of a fanbase for our labels that have enough of an "unparalleled degree of faith" in what we do that it is not an issue.
I have lots of other thoughts on this but it comes down to the same old arguments pro and con, so there is no point wasting bandwith. Its a subject that has been beaten to death and no one is going to have a revelation and jump into the other camp.
Downloading is now a part of our culture. I deal with it.
Ken
General Zod
Ruler of Australia
General Zod
Ruler of Australia
A movie is a poor example. With all the examples I used, the consumer left the store with a tangible product, that they would use multiple times; sunglasses, a t-shirt, a car, a CD.
If you want to use movies as an analogy, than the better comparison would be DVDs. To answer your question, I never buy a DVD before I've seen the movie.
Zod
rms
Active Member
rms
Active Member
I've heard the new disc as well, and yes I downloaded it, but as Nergal from Behemoth put it, if it is good I will buy it, if it sucks I will delete it, and he said the same about his own music, if the fans like it and they will buy it and if they download it and hate it then he doesn't care. This Circus Maximus will be bought by me, as everything else I download and keep on my computer, it just saves me the gassle later of copying onto my computer and mp3 player
Ok, poor analogy. For some reason my brain associated the argument with your statue, painting, etc.
With all of those that you mentioned though, there's some authority that can monitor you (store, manager, employee) in making the purchase. With downloading a CD, there is no authority. Maybe this analogy is better - it'd be as if you take the t-shirt home first, wear it for a day and wash it, and then decide to pay for it. You can see the shirt and try it on at the store - but you don't know how it's going to be for sure after wearing it for a bit.
So stores let you try on and see the product. I believe labels try to compensate this by offering tracks for download, samples on myspace, etc.
I see both sides of the argument, but I totally can understand Ken's comment. My whole reply was just letting him know that some of us do get legit promos.....but I too will admit I d/l CD's in advanced that I havent recieved yet and am curious to hear.
I think the major concern and its a legit one is although many on THIS forum may be honest.....the truth of the matter is soooooo many people download CD's for free with no intent to pay for it. My old bands CD has leaked, and I am no where even remotely close to making money, and it frustrates me to no end. No bullshit Ive made about a 100 bucks profit off my disc and have seen tons of people with it available on different locations. I believe that my old band has material worthy enough for the crowd it caters too (it was a hair metal band and mostly hair metal fans are snagging it .....if curious my old bands myspace is http://www.myspace.com/mommydearestrocks).
Zod makes great points but so does Ken, and I really hold Ken in a high respect with such a great answer. Hes not living in a facade, and knows that these are the times we live in, and tries to do his best to work around these times. Much kudos for sure.
So like Ken said its really a debate thats never gonna see 2 sides agree on totally....I think we can all agree though that if you download a CD like it, and dont purchase it.....than that is STEALING, and not cool. However if you download it, dont like it, and delete it.....than IMO its no different than borrowing a friends CD, LP, tape, or whatever, and deciding you didnt care or like it enough to buy it yourself, and simply returning the item to said friend.
Just my 0.02.
I think the major concern and its a legit one is although many on THIS forum may be honest.....the truth of the matter is soooooo many people download CD's for free with no intent to pay for it. My old bands CD has leaked, and I am no where even remotely close to making money, and it frustrates me to no end. No bullshit Ive made about a 100 bucks profit off my disc and have seen tons of people with it available on different locations. I believe that my old band has material worthy enough for the crowd it caters too (it was a hair metal band and mostly hair metal fans are snagging it .....if curious my old bands myspace is http://www.myspace.com/mommydearestrocks).
Zod makes great points but so does Ken, and I really hold Ken in a high respect with such a great answer. Hes not living in a facade, and knows that these are the times we live in, and tries to do his best to work around these times. Much kudos for sure.
So like Ken said its really a debate thats never gonna see 2 sides agree on totally....I think we can all agree though that if you download a CD like it, and dont purchase it.....than that is STEALING, and not cool. However if you download it, dont like it, and delete it.....than IMO its no different than borrowing a friends CD, LP, tape, or whatever, and deciding you didnt care or like it enough to buy it yourself, and simply returning the item to said friend.
Just my 0.02.
General Zod
Ruler of Australia
I'll grant you that it's a somewhat unique product and it's difficult to construct a perfect analogy. Though do keep in mind, with most consumer products, you can return them if you're not satisfied.
I think most of the steps the labels are taking now, are tantamount to closing the barn door after the horses have fled. In the end, I think rushzil2112's quote of Nergal sums it up, put out a good product and people will buy it. Personally, the ability to download music has more than doubled the number of CDs I buy.
Zod
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