Circus Maximus USA statement

[Jim LotFP]

Right, but who would they be playing to here? People who already own the album and support the band.

Yeah, the important people. They are canceling a tour that a lot of work has already gone into because they'd rather play to some other band's fans than their own.

I pretty much had a front row seat to see the amount of work put into this

The amount of work was pretty obvious to anyone that even casually reads this forum.

We would also like to throw a BIG thank you to Glenn, Hoyt, Lars and Claus at Intromental who has been working their asses of for the last 6 months . Without them a USA tour wouldn`t even be possible . They even believed in the tour after Circle II Circle had to cancel and that is something that they should get a lot of credit for . Kudos to them!!

This is something you post after the tour is done, not when you've just decided not to come. "Thanks for all the wasted effort guys! YOU RULE!!!!!" What a cunt.

They support and respect our decision and understand that this is a very important move for our career in Europe and a huge step for the band in general.

hahahaha. My guess is the situation is more like, "We know they want to stay professional so we can say just about anything we want and people who aren't paying attention will think everything is hunky-dory and pay this situation no mind."

People who are paying attention notice things like this:

I'm afraid that I will not comment further on the situation out of my professional responsibility.

I know I say things like this and then discourage further discussion on the matter (lock the thread) when I'm full of respect and support.

Another thing to think about: Isn't this the first national tour that Glenn and Hoyt tried to put together? Will this hurt their chances for booking another tour in the future? What are the clubs going to say the next time Hoyt's calling, wanting to book some hot up and coming band that the club has never heard of?

Now I don't know Circus Maximus' music, so I'm not just raging at a band I don't like. But it's obvious that CM receives the kind of adoration that Pain of Salvation and Evergrey had when nobody else gave a shit. This isn't just some band to you people, it is the kind of artist-audience synergy that to me is the entire point of the entire "music" thing.

Quality, stand-up people don't take that goodwill and toss it aside for a gamble on future success, and quality, stand-up people don't take the hard work of respected people and take a big ol' dump on it.

How many bands out there would kill to receive the professional effort, attention, and involvement that Circus Maximus just threw away?

 

[Magius]

Thanks for turning your back on the United States fans. Good luck I guess with your European tour so you can make the big time. And yes. You could have said no to it. F popularity. You want to say big love to Hoyt and Glenn. Well this is a finger in their face and all the effort they've done for you, if you ask me. Not that you were.

Lost my support. Plenty of good bands out there.

Cheiron, I usually disagree with about 70% of your opinion posts, but they're really not worth arguing over. This, however, I have to respond to. Your post is one of the most pathetic examples of sour grapes I've ever seen posted on this forum. It's the rant of a spoiled child throwing a tantrum because he couldn't have something he wanted.

Well, it's not about you Cheiron. It's about what they have to do to build their future. Musicians are not here to entertain you at the expense of their livelihoods and the well being of their families. Here's a news flash for you: Circus Maximus are nobodies in the USA. They're not especially huge in Europe for that matter. If they don't gain in popularity then they won't sell albums, they won't make enough to earn a living, and the band will fail.

You and those that think like you need to get over this unrealistic impression that because a band played ProgPower they're now automatically a huge success story. The fact is if they hadn't played ProgPower you yourself would have been unlikely to have ever heard of them. Unfortunately it's also true that most people won't bother to turn out for shows by unknown bands. Bigger bands than CM that haven't played ProgPower have toured here in the US, and played to audiences of 10 people. Despite the success and prestige of ProgPower or perhaps because of it, it tends to be forgotten that the fest is a showcase for some of the smallest bands in an already small underground. Just because some band blew you away at ProgPower doesn't mean anyone outside of that 1200 person audience has ever heard of them or gives a rat's ass about them. Not even all of those that have heard and seen them via ProgPower care about Circus Maximus, despite the ravings of this Prog leaning forum.

I fail to see how you really think this would have been a big opportunity for them. 1000 people buying tickets divided between 10 shows isn't a huge success story, and they were well aware of that. This tour was going to be a big risk for them, but to their credit they were willing to attempt it anyway. However, given the choice between big risk for little to no gain versus a potential career advancing support position, they would have been foolish to do anything but what they did.

I hate it for Hoyt, Glenn, and everyone else involved too. I hate it for me and anyone else who lost money on advance ticket purchases. I hate it for Manticora who wind up with no tour on either continent. There's really very little positive to come out of any of this, but your remarks are way out of line.

 

[Metaldrumz]

Bigger bands than CM that haven't played ProgPower have toured here in the US, and played to audiences of 10 people.

Me, and Evil witnessed FIREWIND play for maybe 30 people in Bedford NH. 30 fucking people (thats counting us, and this was prior to them appearing at PPUSA).

 

[nailz]

Even so, it's unprofressional for anyone to walk away from a previous commitment, especially when that commitment has already been in the works for several months. My understanding from reading the forums here, is that Circle II Circle was supposed to be on this bill as well, and for some reason they dropped. Now, at that point, I can see a damned if you do, damned if you don't scenerio for CM at that point. You can:

A: Play the tour anyway, and hope a respectable amount of people still show up to a show wherein the Headliner has dropped from
B: Come to the conclusion that the tour would be way too expensive, and, because of the bill change, drop.

Sadly, it appears as though, they chose option A, with a "fuck it, LETS DO IT" mentality, which I would assume had any promoters or bookers exploding into motion, cutting deals and working hard to convince clubs to give this a shot.

In walks our REAL antagonist: The yet unnamed big Euro act that ALSO shits all over the work done so far for this probably already financial US tour failure (lets assume CM loses money on their trip here. Seems realistic to me.) Here again we have 2 scenerios:

A: Said band did not know already of CM's tour schedaul in the USA. I assume this is likely, and CM says "Fuck yes, screw the USA tour!"
B: Said band was aware of CM's tour and decided to offer the opening spot anyway, and CM says "Fuck yes, screw the USA tour!"

Either way, CM are indeed, kind of huge dicks for ditching the USA tour, but it makes sense in the monetary sense. We don't know the financial positions of these guys involving the band or their "real" jobs. There are just too many factors here we're not aware of. I don't care one way or the other for this band (and honestly will certainly avoid them in the future), I'm just brain puking ideas.

So I think both sides, those who are angry and those who say "it's a business" are ... right. There's nothing wrong with being pissed off with CM canceling the tour, especially considering who they're bailing on, I think that above anything is a disgrace due to the history between the band and Glenn. However, the band obviously believes better oppertunities abound through another avenue. I just bet they could have handled it with more grace, and I don't believe for a SECOND everything is as hunky dory between the people Mike mentions and the band.

 

[Evil]

Personally i dont blame them at all for jumping on this opportunity which isnt to say im not disappointed because i am. HOWEVER i think once CIIC bailed the tour probably should have cut its losses then before building momentum and actually booking solid dates, a move that IMHO could have preserved any possible positive rep. .This european tour will go LIGHTYEARS in cementing thier status as a solid act worthy of booking ANYWHERE, kudos to them for it...

Its just a shame we have to wait a bit longer here

 

[Evil]

This is something you post after the tour is done, not when you've just decided not to come. "Thanks for all the wasted effort guys! YOU RULE!!!!!" What a cunt.

And while im at it...there is no need to be calling ANYONE names let alone Michael, it just shows how class-less you are

 

[Cheiron]

I find this all amusing I guess. Metal fans stopping caring about how bands treat their fans. Metal fans stopping caring about a lot of things. I think that metal is dieing because its okay now for bands to do what it takes to make money. Its no longer about playing metal. Its all 'ohh its okay one of my favorite bands, stop doing what you do and go make cash because that's all that is important about playing music.'

Metal is going to die with that attitude. If it hasn't already. So yeah. I feel like the only metal fan (besides Jim) posting in this thread. The rest of you sound like friends or business men.

---

Magius, I don't think that CM was going to have a huge financial success here. First, since when is that what heavy metal is all about? Secondly, damn man, its not like Phish started playing to sold out stadiums their first time touring either. They played to increasing number of people. 2 people once, come back around to that town again maybe 10 show, come back again maybe 30 show. Bands today are often unwilling to do this, or have these unrealistic expectations. So yes, they will be playing in front of more pepole with their new tour. Of course. But they won't be playing in front of the people, necessarily, that have been buying their albums, that call themselves fans, that were calling other friends and telling them about this band, that were planning on dragging their friends to this show to see this band.

 

[Metaldrumz]

I find this all amusing I guess. Metal fans stopping caring about how bands treat their fans. Metal fans stopping caring about a lot of things. I think that metal is dieing because its okay now for bands to do what it takes to make money. Its no longer about playing metal. Its all 'ohh its okay one of my favorite bands, stop doing what you do and go make cash because that's all that is important about playing music.'

Metal is going to die with that attitude. If it hasn't already. So yeah. I feel like the only metal fan (besides Jim) posting in this thread. The rest of you sound like friends or business men.

IMO not only is Metal NOT dying but its getting bigger than ever thanks to the internet.

I am DEEPLY involved in the Metal scene, and can tell you not a day goes by I'm not talking to yet another new Metal fan, or discovering a new Metal band (some good, some shit). Over in Mexico, Argentina, Chile etc Metal fans are rabid. Japan goes gung ho over Metal guitar shredders, and Europe goes wild over Power Metal.

 

[TheWhisper]

Dude, you gotta stop taking this personally. The band has to do what they believe to be in their best interest...not yours.

 

[Kaosaur]

This is going way far into the territory of "personal attacks" at this point. This is really uncalled for, guys.

Mike, you and the guys did what you had to do and us fans really shouldn't be bitter about it. I personally considered the tour here to be somewhat of a long-shot, despite all the effort put into things. Sometimes the timing is just bad; as it clearly was in many ways in this case. I'd like to think that by the time you guys are ready to come back it will be for a complete North American tour. This European tour will likely be a step towards that.

 

[dcowboys311]

I find this all amusing I guess. Metal fans stopping caring about how bands treat their fans. Metal fans stopping caring about a lot of things. I think that metal is dieing because its okay now for bands to do what it takes to make money. Its no longer about playing metal. Its all 'ohh its okay one of my favorite bands, stop doing what you do and go make cash because that's all that is important about playing music.'

How is the band supposed to continue if they don't make money? How are they supposed to pay for equipment, studio time, touring costs, and everything else involved with being a band if they don't make a profit? You can't expect them to continuously go deeper into debt each time they want to release a new CD. The exposure they'll gain on this new tour will allow them to release more quality music.

 

[rms]

I can't make an opinion because I agree completely with DC and Cheiron

=/

 

[Cheiron]

How is the band supposed to continue if they don't make money? How are they supposed to pay for equipment, studio time, touring costs, and everything else involved with being a band if they don't make a profit? You can't expect them to continuously go deeper into debt each time they want to release a new CD. The exposure they'll gain on this new tour will allow them to release more quality music.

A job.

 

[Pellaz]

A job.

Uh-huh.

And holding down a steady, well-paying job in the real world, and touring across the world to please all 1000 fans who bought tickets in the U.S., coexist............how?

 

[OdinsCourt]

I think this thread needs to be locked.

 

[sccaldwell]

Just goes to show what they are as business men. Most likely they'll be getting booed off the stage, shit thrown at them or generally ignored, because people there will be waiting for this 'big headliner.' See almost every show. Maybe not. Maybe they'll make a lot of new fans.

Grow up. You sound like a 5-year-old with your little temper tantrum.

The simple fact is that they LOVE what they do, and I'm sure they'd love even more to be able to do it FULL TIME. In other words, "no day jobs." In other words, being able to pull off a *proper* US headlining tour some day...you know, bigger venues, FULL venues, instead of playing to half-empty clubs and bars.

Don't get me wrong...I TOTALLY appreciate and commend Glenn, etc for working their butts off to make the US tour happen, even after CIIC backed out, but I think CM would be fools to pass up an opportunity to go on a full-blown headline tour *anywhere*. And they're not fools.

They're incredible musicians with a dream of actually "making it" (ie. being able to do music full-time). IMHO, you're being a selfish @ss by criticizing them for trying to fulfill their dream.

Craig

 

[Harvester]

I think everything that could be said from various view points has been said. Anything else would be redundant at this point.

Thread closed.