Clean vox help mix help (Paramore meets Taking Back Sunday)

[Joshua Wickman]

Updated Mix:
http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/610605/Anchors song 1 v1.2.mp3


Well here is a small chunk of a mix I have been working on all day. I'm done for tonight but plan to try and finish this up in the morning with fresh ears. I would really appreciate your thoughts and maybe some tips to get these vocals sitting right in the mix.

Right now I have the main vox sent to a buss with a 8th note delay and then some Dverb plate verb right after the delay mixed like 50%. I also put a eq after the delay and verb with a high pass at 200hz and a low pass at 10k.

Also if you have any thoughts on the mix as a whole feel free to share....

http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/610605/Lean and Clean.mp3

 

[colynomial]

Mix in general sounds great to my ears man!

How much compression have you got going on with those vox? Sometimes really squashing the crap out of voxs seems to glue them to the rest of the mix a bit better. You could also try some hard multiband compression on the lows or highpass them a bit further. Also, you'd be surprised how much delay you can get away with especially for this kind of pop stuff.

Here's the vocal 2mix track from Katy Perry's "Hot n' Cold" the amount of delay going on is ridiculous- especially once the backing parts come in! Might be a good reference.

http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/818500/hot_n_cold_%28acapella%29.mp3

 

[Morgan C]

Sounds fairly good.
Guitars maybe too metal? for this style. And bass sticks out too much with its lowmids. Less lowsmids or more lows, or just softer in general?

Vocals need some saturation or excitement (put a send on the vox channel, then highpass that at like 5khz and compress it to FUCK, then mix it back in with the original very slightly. So the vocals don't sound really harsh but they have that 'pro' sweet high-end, like you hear in Hot and Cold above).

And that snare uke: Its Slate right? Its like.. all mids. Scoop some 2-5khz, seriously, and boost some highs and lows. Maybe less compression too. I dunno, its totally not fitting. Kick needs some less high mids too.

 

[Joshua Wickman]

Mix in general sounds great to my ears man!

How much compression have you got going on with those vox? Sometimes really squashing the crap out of voxs seems to glue them to the rest of the mix a bit better. You could also try some hard multiband compression on the lows or highpass them a bit further. Also, you'd be surprised how much delay you can get away with especially for this kind of pop stuff.

Here's the vocal 2mix track from Katy Perry's "Hot n' Cold" the amount of delay going on is ridiculous- especially once the backing parts come in! Might be a good reference.

http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/818500/hot_n_cold_%28acapella%29.mp3

Well i got quite a bit of compression going on from 1176 plugin, probably like 10-15 db at times. Then I used a L1 as well to just take off a few peaks that were left. I also have a c4 on the vocals as well after that. So maybe i just need to tweak it some more and mess with the delay a bit.

 

[Joshua Wickman]

Sounds fairly good.
Guitars maybe too metal? for this style. And bass sticks out too much with its lowmids. Less lowsmids or more lows, or just softer in general?

Vocals need some saturation or excitement (put a send on the vox channel, then highpass that at like 5khz and compress it to FUCK, then mix it back in with the original very slightly. So the vocals don't sound really harsh but they have that 'pro' sweet high-end, like you hear in Hot and Cold above).

And that snare uke: Its Slate right? Its like.. all mids. Scoop some 2-5khz, seriously, and boost some highs and lows. Maybe less compression too. I dunno, its totally not fitting. Kick needs some less high mids too.

Yea its slate snare, I was really digging the snare personally, but i will check the mix in the car and stuff today.

Also I will give a shot blending in some super compressed highs under the main vocals.

Thanks.....

 

[Joshua Wickman]

Ok here is the whole song and i did some vocal tweaking and i think i got it sounding better....

http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/610605/Anchors song 1 v1.2.mp3

 

[colynomial]

I really like this man! The mix has got a bit of a "metal" vibe to it but I don't mind it. Like the drums are pretty chunky for pop music and guitars are real and upfront- neither are bad things just an observation. Vocals sound better to me now- what'd you end up doing? Also, do you mind telling me what you used for guitars?

 

[mattia.7]

Yes man..i like so much this vox..can you share details of plug in settings that you use on vocals please?

 

[Morgan C]

New mix definately sounds better. Vocals sound better with that excitement, although could use a TOUCH more I think.

The vocals are still too loud I think, and I think that's because the guitars are too loud, for this style. Lower the guitars a bit [and if you can, lower the gain a touch], then you can lower the vocals a touch and raise the drums (esp the snare drum), which will help a lot I think. Bass is fitting a lot better now I think.

If you want to stick with that kinda snare its up to you. If you want a more rockish one, add some more room and/or compress with 3ms attack (instant Underoath sound). Overall the snare needs to come up quite a bit (which I mentioned above), its a bit softer than the toms and most rock mixes these days seem to have really loud snares, so you're gonna struggle to match their power with it being this soft.

 

[Joshua Wickman]

My vocal chain was....

desser
1176 about 10db reduction max on the really loud stuff.
r6 eq
c4
l1 just knocking off any peaks and like 1-2db reduction.
desser

Guitars i used the dual setting in Pod Farm and i Blended Jcm800 and Mesa.

 

[Joshua Wickman]

New mix definately sounds better. Vocals sound better with that excitement, although could use a TOUCH more I think.

The vocals are still too loud I think, and I think that's because the guitars are too loud, for this style. Lower the guitars a bit [and if you can, lower the gain a touch], then you can lower the vocals a touch and raise the drums (esp the snare drum), which will help a lot I think. Bass is fitting a lot better now I think.

If you want to stick with that kinda snare its up to you. If you want a more rockish one, add some more room and/or compress with 3ms attack (instant Underoath sound). Overall the snare needs to come up quite a bit (which I mentioned above), its a bit softer than the toms and most rock mixes these days seem to have really loud snares, so you're gonna struggle to match their power with it being this soft.

Good call, I will try some of this stuff....

 

[mattia.7]

Hey man,why 2 de-esser??wich freq and threshold?i never tried but i think it's a good idea..i will try..and sorry,if i don't ask too much,can you share details of the c4 on vocals please?thank you very much..

 

[Joshua Wickman]

I used the 2 de-essers because the first seem to let a few ssss and pppp slip by if they were on the quite side. Then after compression they became really audible. I guess i could have automated the first de-esser but I found it a easy fix to run a extra de-esser after the compressor. I know everyone always says only to run de-esser before compression but hey it worked for me to run after as well. Hope that explains....

Oh freq on the de-esser always changes depending on the singer, but this singer I ran at 6k.

On the C4 i just used the Pop preset and did a few minor tweaks but nothing major at all. Seem to work out well on these vox but I normally don't use the c4 on my vocals.

 

[mattia.7]

thanks man!!last question to understand definetly..this is your main vox chain..then,in the second mix,you tried the morgan advices (put a send on the vox channel, then highpass that at like 5khz and compress it to FUCK, then mix it back in with the original very slightly) or there is just a buss with a 8th note delay and then some Dverb plate verb right after the delay mixed like 50% with a eq after the delay and verb with a high pass at 200hz and a low pass at 10k?thank you dude..the vox in the second mix is a really good work..