COB Interviews

Fatalized said:
I've already begun translating that article so you don't need to do it (unless you'd like to run a competition of 'who's the fastest translator?':p) No, but serioulsy, I've only got one test this week so I think I can get it done till the weekend. It depends on how picky I am with getting everything grammatically correct. (The journalists in these magazines allways seem to love playing with words, making it sound a little odd even in swedish...)

But hey, Excess, if you happen to own a scanner maybe you can scan the pictures because mine is totally fucked up right now.

OK, thanks, that sounds way easier. I have pretty much this week so. Hey, feels stupid to write in english when we both know swedish. But what the hell, for the sake of the others, I will :p
Had a scanner at my parents house, and the last time I was there we could'nt get it to start up. Don't think someone's tried ever since either so, no, sorry. Maybe we have one at school, but I am not sure of that either.
 
If anybody need the interveiw they transated gramatically edited, I'd be very glad to help out... :) If you're going to post I'll be reading it anyway so for sure it wouldn't hurt to correct a few mistakes on the way if any of course :)
 
DeathPact said:
im still waiting for somebody to translate the alexi omg laiho documentary video

Yeah me too, i have and there are some nice guitar parts and shit, but i would like to know what the fuck he's saying
 
Here's the Alexi omg Laiho documentary.

Six string masters: Alexi Laiho

Text:
Alexi Laiho *8.4.1979 Espoo
The first influences: Bands: Wasp, Twisted Sister, Poison and glamrock of all kinds. Steve Vai got me to play guitar.
The gear at this moment: 3 Jackson RR Custom guitars and the rest is just plain professionalism.
Other instuments you play: Drums and bass, but guitar is my instrument!
Should we be expecting some changes in your music style?

Conversation:
Alexi: At least not at the moment. I mean, I have played a lot of different music styles, because I for example went to Ogel, where we had to play jazz and Bossanova and some other fun stuff, but it still wasn't my thing. I don't know what I will be doing in 10 years or will I be doing anything, we'll have to wait and see. But at this moment anyway I have music in my heart and it's what I want to do. And if I can do that for living, it's just perfect.
Interviewer: Where does the nickname Wildchild come from?
Alexi: Well, that comes from aspects outside of music.

Text:
Before starting to play guitar, Alexi played violin as a kid for 5 years and also learned some secrets of piano. Anyway, Wasp and co. blew him away...

Conversation:
Interviewer: Do you have a life outside of music at all? Is there something completely different that you do or that's important to you?
Alexi: Not really. Everything that I'm doing all the time has something to do with music. I don't do and don't even want to do anything else, I'm not even interested in anything else that much. And there's the thing that I have three bands and of course for Bodom I write all the music and it's the most important thing to me. Like if some things don't work between the bands, Bodom goes first.

Text:
The most important project: Children of Bodom
The album that represents your playing the best: Probably the new Sinergy album

Conversation:
Interviewer: Do you consider yourself more as a songwriter or a guitar player?
Alexi: Probably as a guitar player but also as a songwriter, because that's what I do, like for Bodom I write all stuff and some for other bands. I would still prefer if people considered me as a guitar player than some guy with a quill. I'm not a composer anyway. After the last summer I have been practising more than ever before and I have sometimes thought that hell, I wouldn't have been able to play that thing a year ago. If I compare my playing now to our first album, it has nothing to do with what I played on it anymore. And I wasn't able to play the solos that I can now.

Text:
The greatest gig of your own: One of the two gigs in Tokyo
Goal as a guitarist: Learn how to play and a competition between me and Jimi Pääkallo.
And a little more officially...

Conversation:
Alexi: To improve my playing all the time, like picking technique and of course to keep everything as clean as possible. Like I know my limits and I know how fast I am able to play, I don't try to do anything I know I can't do, because there's no point in that. For example if there's a guitarist who has ideas but the technique isn't that good, I think it's a pretty traditional situation. For myself too, when I had played for a few years I tried to play everything as fast as possible and it sounded.. well, let's say like shit. At the time I didn't realize that if I had played more slowly and the things I could play, it would have sounded much better. But it's a phaise you have to go through.

Text:
The Finlands best guitarist of all times and still: Roope Latvala
The worlds best guitarist of all times and still: Steve Vai
And what would happen if Alexi had to stop playing?

Conversation:
Alexi: Suicide.
Interviewer: Outch, reasons?
Alexi: I just couldn't live without music and playing, it's the truth. If I would hurt my hands or something, even if I got tons of money, I couldn't live, because well, I don't know. It's just the thing I want to do, I don't want to do anything else. I can't think of anything that I'd want to do as much, there's really no other choice than suicide.

Text:
How lonely hobby has the guitar playing become?

Conversation:
Alexi: I wouldn't call myself a hermit, but of course if you have the passion for playing you have to give up certain things. You have to practise a lot and during the years you learn to really know your guitar. I think it's true that there forms a personal relationship between you and the guitar. Like sometimes when I feel that everything goes wrong in life, at least my guitar will never hurt me. I have slept with my guitar many times, stroked it under the covers.

Text:
"Members of the family": King James (the oldest that keeps others in order), Striper (a difficult one with schizophrenia) and at the moment unnamed and the newest guitar, that obviously reminds about the owner.
So what has Alexi had to give up because of the guitar?


Conversation:
Alexi: There are pretty much sosial things. Not that much because of the guitar, but mostly because of the band I've had to give up friends and things like that. But because of the guitar, there have been many times when I have had a feeling of going somewhere to do something else, but I know that in a few days we have a recording or something like that. Then I can't go, I have to stay in and practise. They are pretty small things, but sometimes they can really piss you off. But it's worth it.

Text:
21-year-old Laiho has already had time to influence a lot of futures talented players. How does that feel?

Conversation:
Alexi: There have been a couple of them and it's pretty weird, because I don't consider myself as an influence but as someone who is influenced. The situation feels so fucking unbelievable. But on the other hand, comments like that make the playing worth of it all, that I haven't done this for nothing, but actually achieved something. So of course it feels great, but I still can't understand that I would influence someone.
Interviewer: What is your biggest dream of all times as a guitarist?
Alexi: If we're talking about dreams that will never come true, it would be to play in Ozzy Osbournes band.
 
Excess said:
Wonder where Fatalized have gone. Thought he would've posted that interview from SRM last week.

I thought so too but I wanted my sister to read it through before I post it and help me with some phrases I got stuck on. She said she would do it soon when she gets time, but of course she hasn't got time until now. I can promise that I post it tomorrow though.
 
It's done at last. Sorry for the delays but some things got in the way (and you'll soon discover that there's a hell lot of text, with a way too long background information part in the beginning).

If you find any spelling/gramatical errors or if something just sounds odd in general, tell me and I'll try to correct it. When it's written children of Bodom (without capital C) there's nothing wrong though, because the direct translation should have been the Bodomchildren (Bodombarnen) but I thought that sounded stupid (it did in Swedish too...) so I changed it.

tjurskit = bullshit (you'll understand why I didn't translate it in the text when you read it)

And one last thing. Does anyone have any better translation for "lämna någon i sticket" than "leave someone in the lurch"?



Sudden death at Bodom

Children of Bodom returns to the scene of the crime

In 1960 four Finnish youths went camping at the lake of Bodom, one of the supposed thousand lakes in Finland. The camping trip however got a horrible ending. A madman with a knife brutally stabbed three of the youths to death. The fourth, a young man, has suppressed the event completely and doesn’t remember anything. The man who stabbed the youths has never been found. The mystery with the children of Bodom is still unsolved. That’s how the preamble to my last article about Children of Bodom. But now the mystery is no longer unsolved. Or is it? SRM has visited the scene of the crime.

One of the most legendary crimes ever in Finnish criminal history seems to get it’s solution 45 years after the crime took place. In Sweden that never would have happened because murders get statue-barred after 25 years. But a law like that doesn’t exist in Finland and you can get prosecuted for a murder no matter how long time has passed since the actual deed. Perhaps that is what’s happening right know in our eastern neighbouring country. When you read this sentence should have been pronounced in the case against the 63 years old Nils Gustafsson. Nils was the only survivor of the four youths and has in years been prosecuted for the murders of his friends the 4th of June in 1960. The retired bus driver sticks to his original story – that he doesn’t remember anything of the events that night – but still claims that he’s innocent. The prosecutor Tom Ifström has in court in Espoo referred to the result of new DNA-technology which he thinks binds Gustafsson to the crime, mainly that Gustafssons blood has been found on the three murdered: Seppo Boisman, Irmeli Björklund and Tuulikki Mäka.
According to the prosecutors story the both young men had been drinking pretty heavily whereupon Seppo and his girlfriend Tuulikki have withdrawn for more intimate intercourse. Something like that however didn’t Irmeli; who Nils was about to start off a relation ship with; wanna enter into. The rejected and heavily intoxicated youth should then have tried to get desired activity by force, whereupon Seppo and Yuulikki stepped between… yeah, you can probably figure out the rest.
But there is some troublesome factors. Gustafsson claims that it wasn’t so strange that he had his friends’ blood on himself after the prevailing jumble. Besides, he has during hypnosis left a detailed description of a, for him, unknown man who would have been the murderer and also inflicted the pretty serve injuries Nils got. Another ingredient in this peculiar story, Professor Jorma Palo contributes with. He’s supposed to one day after the murders have taken care of a confused and injured man who is said to be the German agent Hans Assman and according to Palos theory is the real murderer. The cause of the murder still being unsolved should then be that Assman was protected by the Finnish security police.

The case is solved?
But the guys in Children of Bodom don’t give much for this later theory when I go with them to the lake of Bodom to visit the scene of the crime.
It’s a nice late summer day and when we arrive the lake contains both swimmers, boats and jumping fishes. The representative of the record company has got a map over the scene of the murder, which of course is available for buying. When we’ve found our way to the exact place where three Swedish-speaking Finnish youths lost their lives a little more than 45 years ago it doesn’t feel quite as macabre and unpleasant as I had thought it would be. Maybe it’s because such a long time has passed– or maybe even more likely – because of the Finnish summer idyll and the view over the beautiful lake that makes the place an inconceivable resident for such a gory incident. Pictures should be taken and it surfaces that it’s only the second time the band has taken pictures out here, even if the lake itself has appeared on several of their CD covers. As the tent is set up several murder tourists stroll about on the place and ask curious questions to the motley company which seems to be camping on stained ground. The artists themselves are pretty amused by the situation, possibly with exception for the singer and guitarist Alexi Laiho who after arriving late mostly walks around by himself smoking constantly.
When the pictures have been taken we get into the cars and drive back to Helsinki for some food, more beer and an interview with the band – though the latter now reduced to four because the drummer Jaska Raatikainen has to leave. The conversation of course comes to circulate around the latest revelations in the murder case and Alexi admits that he voraciously follows what’s going on, not least with thought on that the well guarded trial inevitably gives a considerable amount of publicity to the lake Bodom and then also indirectly to his band.
– I’ve read as much as I’ve come across about it. There’s a lot of shit I didn’t know and obviously no one else did either. But I don’t think he’s gonna get convicted.
– I don’t think it’s our thing to say if he’s guilty or not, says the guitarist Roope Latvala but adds that Gustafsson’s going to go free.
The keyboard playing Janne Wirman agrees and reckons that there isn’t enough with evidence.
– But he has to be guilty.

Publicity for free
When I interviewed Alexi in 2003 he told me that they had chosen the band name because of the bands morbid sense of humour. Of course he thinks the name is even funnier now.
– And now it’s Bodom everywhere. Of course they don’t mention the band, but we still get free publicity every day. On the internet there are people who write that we should change name now when they’ve caught the murderer. Why? 45 years after the murder they catch the guy and he turns out be the fourth member of the company. As if that isn’t mysterious enough…
– During our whole carrier I’ve waited for a negative reaction on our band name, says the bassist Henka T. Blacksmith (Or Henkka Seppälä, which is his real name). But there hasn’t been one. Now when the case is up again it’ll probably come. But it’s good publicity for us.
When the group chose their band name they had certainly never thought that the case would actually come to a solution but Janne tells me that one of their fans actually already solved the case several years before the Finnish police did.
– There was a new fan who came to our website and found his way to the discussion forum. He wondered what the meaning behind Bodom was. Someone told him the story and he wrote that it was an obvious case. That one of the guys got laid and the other guy didn’t and got mad…
– I think he wrote that the others had a threesome or something, Alexi cuts in.
– Maybe, but what he wrote was more or less exactly what happened. He got furious because he didn’t succeed to nail the chick.
– We thought it was fun when he wrote it for a couple of years ago, Alexi continues. But we didn’t believe in it. Now when it has turned out to be true it’s actually even funnier.
You have one Bodom-song on every album. Is the one on the next album going to be about what’s now revealed?
– Probably, Janne says quickly.
– Maybe, considers Alexi. You never know.
– No, says Janne. We have to be careful with talking shit about this guy because he has fucking good lawyers.
– We’re not talking shit about the guy, objects Alexi. But we’ll see. Probably there’s gonna be something about what’s happened in some way, but how do you write lyrics about a fucking trial? I don’t know. We’ll see.

Alexander quits
Since I met Children of Bodom the last time the band has for the first time lost a member. In 2003 the astounding news came that the guitarist Alexander Kuoppala hade made the decision to quit the band. Almost as astounding was that the group short after announced that they had a new guitarist, the somewhat legendary Roope Latvala. But how does this go together with following quote from my last interview with Alexi: ”No one else can play in this band. Not because we are the best musicians in the world, but because it has to be we five. We’ve got the chemistry.”?
– I still stand up for the idea behind what I said then, Alexi explains. But obviously it doesn’t need to be exactly those five people we were then, haha! I mean, it was a difficult situation.
– It wasn’t just Alexi’s idea, says Janne to his defence. All five felt that way, that it would always be we five. You can never foresee that someone’s about to do a 180°-turn and become a totally different person.
– That’s what happened, Alexi confirms. Someone turned out to be a person we didn’t want in the band anyway. But now he quitted. We just thought that OK, now he’s met this chick. Now he’s gonna be totally rapt by her in like two months before he gets tired of the bitch and becomes the guy he used to be.
Alexi chuckles a little at how wrong they were.
– Instead he gets children and quits the band…
So when he turned out to be another person then you thought…
– No, interrupts Janne, that’s not how it was. We knew him! But he changed. He changed his lifestyle and everything that was him.
– Absolutely, agrees Alexi. It was like some other fucking guy had jumped into his body and taken over. I’m serious!
– That’s how it was, tells Janne. The band always came first. That was his first priority. And then suddenly he didn’t give a shit about the band.
– He used to be the most exaggerated rock ’n’ roll-dude you can imagine, Alexi continues. The band and the friends was everything for him. He also used to be my best friend. And suddenly neither the band nor the friends means a shit to him. And I know that I’ve always said that if someone quits we’ll bury the group. But that would be like the dumbest thing you could do. We’ve worked our asses of in many, many years for this and then should we throw that away because of one person? No way.

Former friends
Hard words rain over the former friend and member of a band where the members have had strong bonds to each other. But for Alexi it was also a hard blow when the treachery came from where he least excepted it.
– I was totally wrecked. Seriously!
Janne wasn’t quite as surprised, and had already got a feeling where things were heading. But he still got upset when Alexander left them before a number of concerts.
– Well, we couldn’t really cancel. Or maybe we could, but that would have sucked ass.
Henkka had also seen how the band mate had begun changing from being totally devoted to the band and loving touring like the others.
– On the last tour he didn’t seem happy anymore and was on the phone talking with his girlfriend all the time. To the last show, at the Tuska festival, he didn’t even come with us in the bus but instead took the car with his girlfriend. But I don’t know if he left us in the lurch. On the level we are, there’s really no good point of time to quit. I think he had planned it that way, because at least we had a little more than a month till the next concert.
– He left us in the lurch, thinks Alexi though. I asked him, I said that we only had a few booked concerts left. We had Moscow and sold out concerts in Japan. Do them with us and then quit. But he said no, he would play the Tuska festival with us and then go. And that was it. My best friend since many years!
– That’s how it really was, confirms Janne. If you asked Alexander where he was he most of the time answered “in Alexi’s car”, because they were always together and were out driving.
And how is your relationship now?
– There is no relationship, says Alexi with audible bitterness in his voice. We have no contact at all. I don’t know him anymore, I don’t even know who he is. The guy who was my friend and played guitar in the band … he’s gone. Sure, if I run into him in the street it’s “Hey, what’s up?”. I’m not mad at him anymore. But I was. You don’t treat a friend like that. OK, he couldn’t stay in the band because he wanted to live another kind of life. I can buy that. But why did he ditch all his friends? That’s not nice and that’s why I got angry.

Roope joins
However, Alexander was now just a memory. Which meant taking a place on stage for Roope Latvala. More than ten years older than the other members he already has a lot rock ‘n’ roll on his conscience. During the later half of the eighties he was a founding member of Stone, one of few Finnish bands who has been heard outside Finland before later years’ explosion. He also spent six years in fairly well known Waltari and is still playing guitar in Sinergy (in which degree that band is still existing) together with Alexi. Like the other children of Bodom he’s from the small town Espoo outside Helsinki (where thus also the lake Bodom is situated), but as the difference in age indicates that’s not how he got to know them.
When Alexander left the band during ongoing world tour, although they had somewhat of a break, they were supposed to be on stage in Moscow only a month later. Which is a very short time for finding a new guitarist who also can play with as much technical skills as the band’s music demands and be able to learn 20 songs. Not a job for some bedroom guitarist, with other words. After a failed attempt to recruit Griffin-guitarist Kai Nergaarden it was in the end Roope who went on stage with the band in Moscow the 16th of august in 2003.
– It was scary, Roope remembers. Almost a panic reaction. One sold out concert in Moscow in front of 2000 people and I had had short time to learn the songs. I practiced until the last minute. But I made it.
– He saved our asses, says Alexi. He jumped in and played the booked concerts we had and then it just went on. Suddenly we realized that he had played with us in over a year. He’s a great guitarist, a good guy and he looks good on stage.

Step by step
Roope himself remembers how it happened. He just kept playing with the band without anyone asking him if he was about to continue.
– The single thing was once in the tour bus. We were sitting, drinking and talking as usual and someone said that if you want to stay you’re welcome. Then they poured up more booze and that was the end of the discussion. We’ve never talked about it again, ha ha!
But how was it to get into such a tight fellowship that it is in this group?
– I took it step by step, answers the guitarist. You aren’t just one in the band all suddenly. I got to feel my way, how things worked, see if we were going to be friends. But their music and my guitar technique, things I played before, fit well together. So in that way it was pretty easy.
When you recruit someone like Roope in the band you of course also get a lot of experience, which probably could be favourable. And it has also been.
– He has a completely different angle of incidence than we, explains Alexi. When we go on and do stuff like we use to he can suggest that we do it in another way. And then it turns out that that works better.
Something that also works better, according to Alexi, is the musicality itself. Roope is one of the best guitarists ever, says the front man, and therefore he doesn’t need to worry when he writes new music.
– I can come up with the craziest riffs ever and know that the other guy can handle it.
Was that something you worried about with Alexander?
– I didn’t worry, but I knew his limitations.

Not dead yet
But it isn’t the ex-guitarist the new album’s title is about, even if you easily could think that when you get to know that the album name is “Are You Dead Yet?”. The title is a question that Alexi as a matter of fact asked himself after some heavy partying. That sounds like true Finnish partying …
– We had toured for “Hate Crew Deathroll” in almost two years. The last part we did was six weeks in the USA. We were so exhausted when we came home that we just kept up with the partying and everything. However, we were out with some friends and got totally wasted. I climbed up on a car roof and it was in the middle of the winter so I slipped and fell on my wrist and face and broke my arm. I got to go with a cast for seven weeks. The next day when I woke up and looked in the mirror I saw my face which was totally trashed with stitches, a black eye and everything. And a cast on my arm! And I asked myself “What have you done the last two years?” I guess “Are You Dead Yet” could be translated as “Have you got enough yet?”.
– But we had fun, Janne cuts in.
– Yes, Alexi admits, we had.
– We had too fun on the tours, laughs Janne. Maybe everyone weren’t in as bad condition, but what happened to Alexi made us think.
Oh yes. Children Of Bodom is still one of the rare bands that actually think it’s fun to tour, when many others complain over jetlag, monotony and being away from home. Not to mention the not so unproblematic with being together 24/7 during very long time. These are things that can consume the best fellowship and trivialities as snoring, gum chewing or choice of movie can cause conflicts of warlike dimensions. But not for the children of Bodom.
– We get on fucking great with each other all the time, Alexi assures.
– Like I said we even have too much fun, Janne agrees. It doesn’t even feel like work anymore.
How’s that possible? Alexi does an attempt to an explanation of conflict solving à la Children of Bodom:
– We tell each other without being rude. If someone does something you think is annoying you just say “Stop that, dude” and slap him, then it’s all good.
Janne tells me that they have toured with many bands that didn’t seem to have fun and he wonders why they just can’t seem to agree.
– When we toured with Iced Earth they didn’t have fun, Alexi remembers. Some guys, one of them their now ex-guitarist, came all the time to our tour bus because that’s where the party was and he hung around with us all the time. But that created conflicts in that band. Jon Shaffer (Iced Earth’s rhythm guitarist and the prime mover) couldn’t take it, he got pissed.
– The guitarist wasn’t allowed to be in our bus, Janne fills in. He was forced to hang around in their bus where everyone hated each other, ha ha!

Still not dead
It’s nice that they get on so well with each other, but I think we got a little of track. It was the new album we were supposed to talk about. For example we want to know the children of Bodom’s own views on it. Janne makes the conclusion it definitely is a progression since the last one, so much that even he is surprised.
– We’ll never make the same album twice or some shit like that. But I’m still so attached to the last record. I think that “Hate Crew Deatroll” is so fucking good that I’m still trying to get used to the new record. We’re probably just trying to figure out what’s going on, ha ha! But we are very satisfied with the result. And the recording process was very easy and smooth.
– Yes, Alexi agrees. For sure the easiest so far.
In what way?
– We recorded and mixed it in six weeks. The last one was recorded in six weeks and then we mixed it in ten days or so.
Even Alexi has strong feelings for the precursor and has had difficulties with how to go on from it, it turns out.
– I really love “Hate Crew Deatroll” and it felt like it would be very hard to top it. But then I realized that you can’t think like that. And I’m very glad that we could to do something completely different. Not completely different, there’s a lot of same shit going on but it’s fresh. It’s not “Hate Crew Deatroll” part 2.
Henkka tells me that when they first begun practicing the songs it sounded pretty much as usual.
– That song is good. And this one and that one. But then when we were done recording it and had mixed it I got really surprised [in a positive way] by the result.
– One good way to figure out if a record is good is to check how many times you can listen to it without getting tired, says Roope. I’ve had the CD in the car for weeks and heard it I don’t know how many times and it’s still not boring. That’s a fucking good sign.
How would you describe the difference?
– That’s very hard, says Janne. I’ve tried to figure it out …
– Try again, laughs Alexi.
– Something that’s different is the keyboards, says of course the band’s keyboard player, We tried a little harder with it, with creating good sounds. More modern sounds.
– Especially on the keyboard but also on the whole, Alexi agrees. We’ve tried to be more open-minded about how to record an album. This time we were quite a lot in Janne’s studio before [the recording] and tried out ideas. We would never have done like that two years ago, then it was only the standard sounds. This time we haven’t fallen back on what’s “right within metal”, rather the opposite. We’ve avoided the most common strings and bells. But sure, there are things like that too because you must have that.

Bull faeces
The last time I talked to Alexi he told me that he had gone through some “tjurskit” which had been the inspiration for the music on “Hate Crew Deathroll”. When I mention it and ask what has inspired “Are You Dead Yet?” he laughs.
– Bullshit, ha ha! I mean, everyone has that sort of shit in their lives. It’s unavoidable, it’s a part of life. But for my own I’ve learned to get inspired of the stupid things that makes me pissed.
He explains it doesn’t have to be the big things in life you get pissed of. It was different when he was young. The 18-year old who recorded “Something Wild” and saw everything through a juvenile angry red wrathshimmer and who wrote lyrics about slitting his wrists, downing pills and drinking booze has grown up and nowadays he gets the furious energy for the music and the lyrics from more ordinary everyday situations.
– Now it’s more a mental condition, to be pissed. It could be anything, like getting stuck in the traffic or miss when you’re playing playstation. You get that rush, you know. It doesn’t have to be something big like when I was younger. But at that time I was more fucked in the head.
Are you wiser now?
– Much wiser, ha ha! Much wiser!

The 7th October, which is just before this magazine’s going to the press, Nils Gustafsson got acquitted on the grounds of deficient evidence.
 
oceanqueen44 said:
Care to share what happened? If not, then thats OK. Looking forward to the interview.

Well it was a flustering thing. Happens on the rare occassion when I am really into a band and I am in their presence. Last time I interviewed Alexi, it was done via phone. ;)
 
when you did this interview, did you record it? If so, why don't you put up the audio too?