Confused about order in vocal chain

[JayB]

As I've been getting more in depth with vocal mixing, I've been getting pretty confused as far as the order things are supposed to be in. I know that there is some leeway as far as order in chain for some things, but I'm just looking to make sure I'm not doing something wrong. I've read many posts on vocal chains here, but I'm still confused, for instance, where saturation goes in a vocal chain. Since I've read that it's best to print vocal overdubs separately most of the time (I believe Ermz said it helps maintain clarity and stops overlapping lines from being drowned out by compression) do I print them without the reverb and delay, leaving that for last when all the vocals are printed? As for saturation, here's what my chain looks like right now for screams:

1) De-esser
2)EQ (I read in another Ermz post that it's better to eq into compression)
3) Compression- CLA-76
4)Compression- CLA-2A
5)Izotope Trash or Decapitator
6)L1 Limiter

Does that seem right at all or totally wrong? Also, can decapitator and Trash be used together, or should they only be used separately? Thanks in advance

 

[acappa]

I see it right! I do almost the same, except I compress in the way in with distressor, so I usually put Rcomp Mono in every track and compress like 3db, and then in the Vox Bus:
- De esser
- Waves V-Eq, with some cuts and filtering
- CLA 3A I find this one working better in vocals than LA2A
- (I run distressor with Disto 3 mode on, so I don´t need extra saturation)
- L1

I find miself filtering 80Hz and 12KHz, what are you guys doing?

 

[JGolden]

That looks like a pretty good chain. I move saturation before and after compression depending on how much of the grit I want brought out. I also never print time-based effects. My chain looks something like this:
1. EQ
2. De-Esser
3. CLA-2A
4. RVox
5. Pod Farm Preamp Sim (Neve Model) for saturation
6. De-Esser
7. L2

 

[acappa]

And extra desser before limiting and after compression has all the meaning...I will try it!

 

[RedDog]

I see nothing but good help in this thread.

My chain:
Eq filter
Any 1176 style comp
Saturation optional
Eq boost if needed
De ess
Pin with any la2a style comp

 

[JayB]

Awesome, thanks for the great responses guys! I feel more confident now

 

[locus_coeruleus]

Could I ask for some tips on compression settings? This thread is very useful to me as I am often also lost on setting the vocals chain

 

[acappa]

Could I ask for some tips on compression settings? This thread is very useful to me as I am often also lost on setting the vocals chain

LA2A&LA3A have fixed attack&release, for my Rcomp, I run fast attack/release for the tipical in your face sound. It´s very important to run the EQ into compression, kill everything down 100hz is not needed, then compress

 

[JayB]

I was about to ask how much everyone hi passes vocals. Some say 100 hz, others say up to almost 200. What's the norm? And does it change between screams and cleans?

 

[Fandus]

I was about to ask how much everyone hi passes vocals. Some say 100 hz, others say up to almost 200. What's the norm? And does it change between screams and cleans?

depends on the vocalist for me. some have a really woofy low end that i just kill entirely (200hz hipass) some dont have it as bad so less is needed. i find taking more low end out of screams makes them sound alot heavier, but with singing a lacking low end makes them sound weak.

 

[JGolden]

i find taking more low end out of screams makes them sound alot heavier, but with singing a lacking low end makes them sound weak.

+1 to that. I'm usually somewhere around 150-175 for screams and 100-120 for cleans.

 

[JayB]

Cool! Thanks for the tips!

 

[JayB]

Also, how much gain reduction do you guys normally do between both compressors?

 

[RedDog]

Depending on source material, if it's all jumpy, around 5-6 db on comp1, up to 8-10 on the last one. I like my performances pinned in metal.

For really tight performances, maybe 3-4 on both comps. sometimes I can ditch the second compressor altogether.

 

[brain-hammer]

Why do you guys use 2 compressors ? I don't see the advantage behind it.

 

[Skinny Viking]

^ compressing in smaller stages allows for not only great control over the end result but is also widely accepted as producing better sound with less artifacts

kinda like eating 4 small meals a day as opposed to 1 giant meal

as for my chain:

EQ
COMP
SATURATION (optional)

DELAY (send coming from main vocal)
EQ

REVERB (send coming from any backing vocals)
EQ

sometimes I have a main vocal bus, sometimes not ... if I have like 3 vocal tracks I usually won't bother. Anything more than that in additiona to big backing vox, I'll create a couple groups and buss them together. Its on those that I'll throw an additional comp on

 

[Ermz]

Your chain looks good, Jay. Just mix and don't overthink it! If it sounds good, then it is good.

 

[ze kink]

Have to say, when I tried the CLA stuff I preferred LA2A first and 1176 after that, with the LA2A doing the main compression and the 1176 pushing back the unwanted stuff that the LA2A was too slow for.

 

[JayB]

^ compressing in smaller stages allows for not only great control over the end result but is also widely accepted as producing better sound with less artifacts

kinda like eating 4 small meals a day as opposed to 1 giant meal

as for my chain:

EQ
COMP
SATURATION (optional)

DELAY (send coming from main vocal)
EQ

REVERB (send coming from any backing vocals)
EQ

sometimes I have a main vocal bus, sometimes not ... if I have like 3 vocal tracks I usually won't bother. Anything more than that in additiona to big backing vox, I'll create a couple groups and buss them together. Its on those that I'll throw an additional comp on

Cool, thanks! Also, I LOL'd at "kinda like eating 4 small meals a day as opposed to 1 giant meal"

 

[JayB]

Your chain looks good, Jay. Just mix and don't overthink it! If it sounds good, then it is good.

Thanks. Not trying to overthink it, I was really just trying to make sure I wasn't doing something totally wrong/ retarded. Glad to know I wasn't!