Controlling Hi Hats in Overheads......Real Drums.

[hkollner]

Hi Guys,

I have started mixing our album hit a bit of a snag.... We have tracked real drums and the Hi Hats are way too loud in the overheads.

Here's a example. The Hi hat and ride mics are all the way down. Only overhead mics.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1794391/WargraveTemplate1(Mastered).mp3

Any tips on lowering the Hi Hat volumes and keeping the cymbal volumes loud?
As you can hear the cymbals are super soft and the Hi Hats VERY loud. This about the loudest I can have the overheads because the Hi Hats will just kill the mix.

Thanks in advance

 

[SoundSpiral]

I'm afraid you'll have to automate the OH volume down every time the hi-hat is played.

 

[MrBongo]

how did you manage to get the hihat so damn loud?

 

[Manicompression]

Side chain. If you have a mic'd hat track, 1) cut out all the silence 2) send it to a side-chained multiband comp on your overhead tracks. 3) tweak the multi band - Done. Same with Ride.

 

[mva801]

Side chain. If you have a mic'd hat track, 1) cut out all the silence 2) send it to a side-chained multiband comp on your overhead tracks. 3) tweak the multi band - Done. Same with Ride.

This- or automation by hand.

The REAL solution is to mic things better from the start. Remember that for next time! I always make sure I solo the overheads and have the drummer play all the cymbals as hard as he's going to play while tracking to make sure they're well balanced.

 

[Contra Studio]

You can also midi in OH but won't be that great. I would automate by hand everything. GL

 

[Daybreak]

Find out in which frequencies the Hi-Hat live in the OH and sidechain it with a multiband using the mic'd track would be my bet, if you don't wanna automate by hand. Or just cut away the frequencies in the OH, chances are you're gonna drag the other cymbals down with it then though..

 

[scorpio01169]

Those are real drums?

 

[Jordon]

Automation is your best bet, in my experience. It's a pain in the ass, but since I'm usually doing a fair bit of automation with the overhead and room mics anyway, it's not too bad.

 

[amarshism]

Automation. Doesn't seem as offensively loud as you made it out to be.

 

[Jordon]

Automation. Doesn't seem as offensively loud as you made it out to be.

Yea, it doesn't sound too grating to me. It's easy to become fixated on things that you perceive as too loud or annoying, when it's really not. I fall into this trap with sibilance all the time.

 

[StoneLord]

Phew.. I thought I was going deaf. Yeah, that is nowhere near as bad as you made out. In fact I'd turn the OHs up a bit.

 

[hkollner]

Side chain. If you have a mic'd hat track, 1) cut out all the silence 2) send it to a side-chained multiband comp on your overhead tracks. 3) tweak the multi band - Done. Same with Ride.

Thanks for the tip. Not sure how to do it though. Will do some reading up on it.

This- or automation by hand.

The REAL solution is to mic things better from the start. Remember that for next time! I always make sure I solo the overheads and have the drummer play all the cymbals as hard as he's going to play while tracking to make sure they're well balanced.

Yeah we should've used smaller hats and the drummer should've played the hats softer. He annihilated those hats. I have single cymbal hit recorded at the end of the session. What do you recommend I do with those?

Those are real drums?

Yup real drums except for kick 100% replaced. and Snare 50% replaced.

Automation. Doesn't seem as offensively loud as you made it out to be.

What difference would automation by hand make compared to side chain compressing?

Yea, it doesn't sound too grating to me. It's easy to become fixated on things that you perceive as too loud or annoying, when it's really not. I fall into this trap with sibilance all the time.

Well the cymbals are too soft right? If i bring up the volume of the OH to make the cymbals louder the hats will just destroy everything right?

 

[hkollner]

Phew.. I thought I was going deaf. Yeah, that is nowhere near as bad as you made out. In fact I'd turn the OHs up a bit.

you guys serious? Maybe I am just being full of shit then?

Haha goinf deaf as in the mix is raping your ears or deaf as in you have to really listen to hear the hats?

 

[StoneLord]

you guys serious? Maybe I am just being full of shit then?

Haha goinf deaf as in the mix is raping your ears or deaf as in you have to really listen to hear the hats?

The latter.
Although, my top-end hearing probably aint too great these days.

Turn 'em up until the crashes are sitting right and then hit the hats with the side chained compressor as suggested earlier. Should get you there.

Nice mix BTW.

 

[Kohugaly]

Use band-band de-esser ... actually multiband compressor with only one band engaged is a band-band de-esser

 

[SoundsLikeFog]

Nah, I found it quite cool sounding in a thrashy, violent etc way.

Automate every hi-hat strike..? Fuck that. To me the problems seems that while recording / mixing, somebody hi-passed the OH's from 800hz, leaving nothing but sibillant swishswosh and thin klingklang.

I find the balance awesome. It's the sound that sucks. If the OH's sounded awesome, the hh wouldn't bother anyone one bit. And it seems that even if the OH's don't sound awesome, the hh's not nearly as bad as it would seem to you.

E: But don't get me wrong, yes, it is indeed fuckin' loud. But I like it.. , though, people tend to say that I have a fuck'd up taste considering sonics. If you eradicated all the low end during recording, maybe I'd try some de-essing / multibanding magic tricks to tame some of the facepeeling hi-mids..

If that fails, maybe it's just time to admit that 'okay guys and gals, we're not gonna have the cymbals up in the front in this album because the HH will compromise the mix, so let's just try to make that sound good cause god knows we're not gonna get rid of that'.

Might be a better way in the end than throwing every plugin and automation trick in the book to the track so that you can have a pseudo-meh track in the end.

 

[Alphanumeric]

They aint' too bad really, I love half open sizzly hi-hats to be nice and loud.

Automate by hand. Or get grinding with your mouse, there's no too much of it anyway so get going. Notch down around 8K too, 1-2db, won't affect shells much since they are very separated anyway.

 

[Mago]

The HH is oud, but that's not the problem, the problem is it sounds nasty as fuck.
maybe try notching out some of that on the OH track, see if it fixes that without destroying the rest of the cymbals.

was that eq'ed on the way in? sure hope not.

I'd still automate the OH track volume. If you have a spot mic for the HH it wont even take that long, cause you'll see where it was played. Pull down the HH sections.

 

[meanmrmustad]

I havent heard it but how about using cymbal samples? If its on the first hit it'll trick u into hearing the other hits better