Countdown to the Election

Dän;6211253 said:
^ The reasons he gives are true, but most are either unrelated are uncontrolable by the government or are a neccassry part of the current climate.

How are they unrelated? To what? What was I wrong about? Why did your IQ decrease? Do you want to discuss these things, or are you just going to keep saying, "Man, you're wrong. You've got no idea, blah blah blah" HOw many elections have you voted in, Dan? Are you paying a mortgage? Are you a low income earner? A parent? Have you ever been unemployed? Are you trying to raise a family on a single income, because your wife can't work? You're not discussing these things, you're just dismissing them out of hand. If you want to present yourself as an intelligent person who can argue about economics and politics, please do so. But if your reply to every post is just "I can't be bothered", then, once again, please fuck off.
The fact is the reasons I gave are very strong reasons why people vote the way they do. They may be feeble, but apart from you going on about the economy all the time, what reason can you give for voting for the bastard? He introduced unpopular legislation after promising he wouldn't, introduced even more unpopular legislation after not telling anyone he was going to, his policies have undermined public health care, public education and welfare, he is attempting to push more and more people onto minimum wages while interest rates and fuel prices skyrocket and then offering people less than $20 a week in tax cuts to make it up. John Howard is pissing on your leg and telling you it's raining.
 
I will vote Liberal again. The GST rocks.

The GST is wonderful in theory. Replacing a disparate range of sales taxes with a single flat rate tax sounds like a great idea. HOward even sold it with the suggestion that prices would fall. Except it hasn't quite worked out that way, because states like NSW still have to charge their own levies because Costello won't divvy up the goodies fairly. Like most things he's done, he's promised a level playing field but not delivered one. I love paying 10% tax on my phone bill, that I'd never had to pay before GST, then paying GST on fuel, then a 3% State levy and a 3% road tax on top of that, that the GST was supposed to replace. I love living in an area with the population the size of Glenelg, without a single bulk-billing doctor because Howard's erosion of public health has forced doctors into charging up-front fees. And I love living in a country with a bouyant economy where it's too expensive to buy a house or send a child to university. I ask again, what's the beauty of a bouyant economy if you're too poor for it to do you any good?
 
..Costello won't divvy up the goodies fairly.

?? The GST in theory is a tax that will take from the haves to give to the have nots. (tax NSW to benefit NT). How is that, from the view of a staunch ALP voter and unionist, not fair?
 
Again, that sounds great in principle, except that NSW has about 15 times the population of the Northern Territory and is growing all the time. NSW is always going to be the bread basket of the other states except for the fact that there are areas of NSW (ie, almost everywhere that isn't Sydney, Newcastle or Wollongond) that are almost as needy (or needier) than Hicksville in some other state. How are they benefitting by NSW's GST being used to help NT? And it's not just something that can be palmed off on the states, although they do have their share of responsibility. But if Costello's taking money off NSW that NSW needs to help a town that's about to die from the drought and giving it to, say, another town with the same problem in another state, how is that fair?
 
Where you blame the federal govt, I blame the states. It's as simple as that.
I believe you are being led a merry-dance by your Premier in relation to distribution of GST revenue. :err:
 
Where you blame the federal govt, I blame the states. It's as simple as that.
I believe you are being led a merry-dance by your Premier in relation to distribution of GST revenue. :err:

I think it's a little from column A and a little from column B. Victoria and NSW contribute more into the GST pool than all the other states put together, but they also need more.
 
Dän;6211073 said:
Yes, No, gay.

Ive never said he hasnt lied to us - GST of course was a blatent lie, why wasnt he voted out then?

The people that I know who admit voting liberal were all scared of another of his lies...interest rates. Single issue for the majority of them. They didn't like what he's done to health care and education, but were scared shitless by the single issue of "low interest rates", in spite of the fact that they are paying more interest (dollar amounts) now than they ever were when they were at 17%.

Dän;6211073 said:
Give me a good reason not to vote for him; challenge the undeniable sound economic policies that this government has with better ideas then I'll consider changing my mind, until then you clearly have no reasons that are intellegent.

I think that you mean intelligent.

I don't like being lied to...that's reason enough for me, the rest of your paragraph is crap.

Turning our IR and health care systems into copies of the United States is another reason that I won't support him (By the way, I helped vote him in in the first place)

As to sound economic reasons, how about their listening to the Productivity Commission ?

The Productivity Commission are quoted extensively when it comes to work place relations etc, but when the recommendations are to restrict negative gearing (practiced a lot by the wealthy conservatives), that is rejected.

That's part of the reason for the insane housing prices that exist at present, ensuring that the average Oz family will struggle to pay of a house, and then have to resort to reverse mortgaging to be able to afford their retirement.

Last 20 years, wages have essentially doubled, while housing prices are up five fold. Investors in houses get tax breaks, while the rest of us, and their tenants pay the mortgages.

Allowing "investment" companies, and big business (like the oil companies) to fleece the populace is another reason to get rid of him.

labor like welfare, liberals like corporate welfare.

Sucking up to George Bush is another reason that he should go. "Free trade" agreements that open our borders to U.S. goods, but restrict access to ours (the U.S. refuse to buy our steel, but will take iron ore, won't take our beef etc.etc.), illegal wars, etc.

Buying a shit load of U.S. military equipment that can't be used to defend the country. The Abrahms tanks (one owner, low mileage) that we bought can't be taken from Sydney to Lithgow (look at the distance on a map) without dragging them nearly to Tamworth to the North, or nearly Albury to the south, as they can't get here on their own steam, and won't fit through the train tunnels. They are also incompatible with our existing tank based infrastructure, like mobile bridges etc. They have been purchased SOLELY to allow us to better fir in to whichever war we are in with the U.S. (look up the JSF, and explain to me how they are worth the asking price)...see sucking up to the U.S.

Scrapping his 707 (which he should have, it was archaic), and then buying TWO executive equipped (36 seats only) 737-800s, plus 4 executive equipped challenger aircraft to replace it. Then sticking it to the RAAF for blowing the budget. Shit, even the Queen flies British airways. Why does Howard need two 36 seat airliners, 4 Challenger's at a cost of around $500M ? (personally, I wouldn't mind seeing him in both of them at the same time).

Allowing employers to use worker's entitlements (long service leave, super etc) as operating funds, then allowing the employees to be placed last when it comes to divvying up the funds when the company finally goes bankrupt.

Generating bail-out laws, where the taxpayer funds bankrupt companies paying out their worker's entitlements, and having his brother be the first company to access such bail-outs (haven't been that many since, either).

Guess that's enough for now (also hate his "uniform gun laws", which are anything but uniform, and are a joke on all levels).
 
If you looked at us from an overseas point of view, the economy is going great guns, just like the US and jsut like China, but internally we are slowly taking more from those who need it, and giving it to those who already have enough.

And things like Free Trade agreements are frankly scary, why can't we send them our sugar, but we HAVE to have Bananas from Hawaii and Oranges fro California? where is our free trade...
 
Southy, the only reason that the economy is doing so well is that we are digging our country up and selling it to other people.

we don't even process a lot of the minerals here, so there's far fewer jobs than there should be.

We we've dug everything up, then we become a third world economy.

Howard's sound economy is propped up on mining the country, not building it.
 
haha I admit the first line of my post was immature in terms of a debating point.

But I think the rest of the people in this thread on the "get rid of Howard" side are doing a good job...and Dan, you just seem to be saying "haha you're wrong" without actually backing yourself up appart from saying the economy is good.

Gorey's questions were pretty valid...
gorey said:
HOw many elections have you voted in, Dan? Are you paying a mortgage? Are you a low income earner? A parent? Have you ever been unemployed? Are you trying to raise a family on a single income, because your wife can't work? You're not discussing these things, you're just dismissing them out of hand.

Can you actually discuss these issues and back up your argument with an actual experience of being effected by the Liberal government in a good or a bad way? Or are you just going to keep dismissing everyone's very valid points without explaining why?

And yeah the free trade agreement was a load of shit. Let's make a free trade agreement that doesn't include the MASSIVE Australian sugar industry...because it might affect the US sugar industry, running out of the state being run by Bush's brother.
 
I am an ex-liberal. I will be voting Labor this election for the first time.