Couple questions regarding bands and payment
- Thread starter setyouranchor
- Start date
black.death
BOOMandTACTiswhereitsat
- Mar 1, 2009
- 116
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- 16
Hey setyouranchor,
I know that I'm one of the few that thinks this is a bad idea. I would say let him sit in and critique if he paid for this service. I would absolutely not teach him while this is going on. This could very well become a nightmare scenario since you mentioned he is a prefectionist in the mixing stage alone but, additionaly to stop and teach him while this is going on might continually break the momentum of your mixing.
Not to mention after, you start teaching him now; he will not stop until you have taught him literally everything that you know. He will begin to ask to sit on all of your mixing sessions with other bands no doubt and the pain in the ass factor will continue.
If you keep feeding into this friends' will; this won't stop.
I honestly don't see any positives to letting this particular friend sit in on your sessions.
With other bands. Sure. With this guy. No. He will without a doubt drain you mentally at first and then monetarily after he starts taking away your business.
In response to:
"I really don't see all the fuss. If it took setyouranchor four to five years to get where he's at now, how could this one dude get "up to speed" with that in one session?"
A: He won't stop bothering setyouranchor after this session ends for recording knowledge. This can very well evolve into continually taking advantage of setyouranchor's kindness and knowledge; just to set himself up to possibly steal his clients. A response to this may be "Well if his mixes aren't as good then he won't steal business." Sadly, this is not how local small markets work. Most people know absolute fuck all about what constitutes a good mix and will often go to engineers with factors of price, connections, and just simply being a friend of a friend.
"Come on, guys. Studios have interns all the time. Sure, they learn a ton during the internships, and I'm probably trying pick up one more month-long internship in March, but the interns aren't exactly stealing the engineers' knowledge, are they? I can't help but feel like when you guys are talking about "learning on your own" and shit, that quite a bit of your know-how originates from this forum.."
A: There is a difference between an audio engineer deliberately asking for interns to help out and possibly train in at studio; to high-jacking a mixing session and non-stop bugging on AIM etc without even wanting to train someone.
Yes, every person on this board has learned from this forum. Does that mean since we have once learned something that we deserve to unwantingly be coerced into training some pain in the ass person at our inconvenience?
I'm not being mean or angry or anything at all. Setyouranchor, had a feeling that this might not be a good situation. I'm agreeing with that and stating the reasons why that I believe this way.
Thanks for the input man, although, ARGH im back to where I started haha
I've worked my ass off to get where I am now, and yes a lot of it is good ears, etc, but at the same time, watching endless amounts of tutorials, reading books, practicing, practicing, practicing, does go a long way. For example, I spend 2 weeks perfecting a certain technique or whatever, now takes me two seconds to do, takes the person sitting in 5 minutes from just watching, if that makes sense? Or am I being too paranoid?!
I don't mind helping people out at all, but you can all relate when somebody joins the forum and asks for joey's pod patch and leaves. It kinda feels the same to me, they arnt really up on any sort of techniques, just plug in guitar > add amp sim > DONE. I know theres not really "secrets" so to speak, but I just feel like I've worked hard to get where I am and they havn't?
Hmm.. I'm rambling a little now. Seem kinda prickish or reasonable?
Seth Munson
How do Amber Lamps?
Hey Seb!
let the guy come in and watch or whatever its really not a big deal. When he asks about something, dont give him specifics and be very general with all your answers.
Here in Colorado every thinks they can record music and be a producer. So when bands sit in the mixing sessions with me I always give them an answer and usually ones they dont want to hear (this is my indirect way of being my asshole self).
Band: Why are doing that to "_____"
Me: Well you want your "_____" to sound HUGE right?!?! (response is "Hell yeaaa duder!!! \m/ \m/)
Me: Thats not the "_____", this is the Master EQ and I want to make sure everything sits right (this is me playing with an EQ on a blank track and them saying "ohh ok good!")
Me: Why not? (response is sitting back in the chair usually crosses arms and lets me continue with my work, I dont really recomend this one but after a long day of working sometimes you need to get the job done and not waste time explaining things)
Sometimes responding with lots of recording terms that no one will understand can be the best result with them staring at you blankly and sitting back in the chair so you can continue.
As of recently, I havent been tracking as much (probably only 20% of the album/project) but am doing all the mixing still. When I am mixing my Engineer will most likely be talking to the band and distracting them which lets me focus on mixing. He also would answer any questions they would be asking me and because of all of that has saved me lots of time and stress.
let the guy come in and watch or whatever its really not a big deal. When he asks about something, dont give him specifics and be very general with all your answers.
Here in Colorado every thinks they can record music and be a producer. So when bands sit in the mixing sessions with me I always give them an answer and usually ones they dont want to hear (this is my indirect way of being my asshole self).
Band: Why are doing that to "_____"
Me: Well you want your "_____" to sound HUGE right?!?! (response is "Hell yeaaa duder!!! \m/ \m/)
Me: Thats not the "_____", this is the Master EQ and I want to make sure everything sits right (this is me playing with an EQ on a blank track and them saying "ohh ok good!")
Me: Why not? (response is sitting back in the chair usually crosses arms and lets me continue with my work, I dont really recomend this one but after a long day of working sometimes you need to get the job done and not waste time explaining things)
Sometimes responding with lots of recording terms that no one will understand can be the best result with them staring at you blankly and sitting back in the chair so you can continue.
As of recently, I havent been tracking as much (probably only 20% of the album/project) but am doing all the mixing still. When I am mixing my Engineer will most likely be talking to the band and distracting them which lets me focus on mixing. He also would answer any questions they would be asking me and because of all of that has saved me lots of time and stress.
Donovan S.
Member
So then, what makes you think that if someone watched you do something that they could know exactly when to use it, have the source track as good as yours, etc.
Done? How many mixes have you heard on here of people using Joey's Pod Farm patch and having a mix as good as his?
Sloan
Sounds like shit!
EASY QUESTIONS
1. Always mix alone
2. Always always always always always always always get paid before anything is even setup yet.
3. Always always always always always always always get paid before they even walk through the door.
If they're not willing to pay in full up front, then tell them to get the fuck out of your office.
1. Always mix alone
2. Always always always always always always always get paid before anything is even setup yet.
3. Always always always always always always always get paid before they even walk through the door.
If they're not willing to pay in full up front, then tell them to get the fuck out of your office.
Jarkko Mattheiszen
The FU guy.
If the dude starts bothering him, no-one's forcing him to co-operate and keep giving every bit of advice he can come up with. Just tell him you're busy or something. I had pretty much the same situation with this one kid. I worked with his band, and he wanted to work with me on his other band's demo too but they couldn't afford my rates so they decided to go at it alone with a friend helping them. Sure, I gave him some pointers on some of the things he was troubled about, but when it came to the point I felt like I was giving free consultation for no compensation, I just discreetely let him understand that this is the point where I either get paid or I'm out. Zero problems, no hard feelings, everything's cool.
Unfortunately that's true. That's why stealing setyouranchor's mixing tricks won't probably help him one way or another
Hi.
I'm sorry but I haven't read all the replies above and I'm relatively new to track and mix for hire. But in my opinion I think asking for additional forward payment for headphones is not very professional. It should not be any of their business what you spend your fees on. But also when people hire someone to perform a certain service for them, they don't expect to pay for the equipment (or capital) to enable you to carry out your duties. So in my, perhaps not so knowledgeable opinion, asking for payment for headphones is not very proper. But you might ask for more money of front, but don't mention the headphones.
Other than that, the ideas about letting people sit in is very interesting so thanks for the discussion, all of you.
I'm sorry but I haven't read all the replies above and I'm relatively new to track and mix for hire. But in my opinion I think asking for additional forward payment for headphones is not very professional. It should not be any of their business what you spend your fees on. But also when people hire someone to perform a certain service for them, they don't expect to pay for the equipment (or capital) to enable you to carry out your duties. So in my, perhaps not so knowledgeable opinion, asking for payment for headphones is not very proper. But you might ask for more money of front, but don't mention the headphones.
Other than that, the ideas about letting people sit in is very interesting so thanks for the discussion, all of you.
DavePiatek
Member
Regarding the money situation, payment up front is always my rule these days. I've been burned too many times trying to be the 'nice guy'. Live and learn. I estimate how long the recording/mixing process will take and make that payment due on the first day of recording. I explain that if we end sooner, I'll happily refund the overpayment.
As far as sharing your mixing secrets, I wouldn't worry too much about it, as long as they're paying by the hour. I'll sit around all day and tell people what I'm doing and why if they're paying me my hourly rate. Just explain to the guys in the band that it will take much longer to mix if they attend. The hourly rate won't go up, but it will still end up costing them more money. If they're cool with that and they've paid up, go for it. You just made some extra scratch for new headphones and a couple trips to Chipotle.
In November, I went to a recording workshop in Phoenix run by an engineer I greatly respect. During the workshop, he showed us absolutely everything he does, from drum tuning the whole way to mixing, explaining everything in extreme detail. Know what? My mixes still don't sound like his.
We all hear music differently and qualify what sounds 'good' in a slightly different way. There's no shortcut to putting in the time and effort required to train your ears as to what constitutes a pro-level mix. When I go back and listen to mixes I did 4-5 years ago, I catch myself cringing and thinking "how did I ever let that out of my studio??" At the time, though, I thought my mixes sounded as good as any of the stuff mixed by the big guys.
If your buddy steals all your tricks, I would put money down that whatever record he makes using all your secrets will sound great to his (inexperienced) ears, but cringeworthy to yours.
As far as sharing your mixing secrets, I wouldn't worry too much about it, as long as they're paying by the hour. I'll sit around all day and tell people what I'm doing and why if they're paying me my hourly rate. Just explain to the guys in the band that it will take much longer to mix if they attend. The hourly rate won't go up, but it will still end up costing them more money. If they're cool with that and they've paid up, go for it. You just made some extra scratch for new headphones and a couple trips to Chipotle.
In November, I went to a recording workshop in Phoenix run by an engineer I greatly respect. During the workshop, he showed us absolutely everything he does, from drum tuning the whole way to mixing, explaining everything in extreme detail. Know what? My mixes still don't sound like his.
We all hear music differently and qualify what sounds 'good' in a slightly different way. There's no shortcut to putting in the time and effort required to train your ears as to what constitutes a pro-level mix. When I go back and listen to mixes I did 4-5 years ago, I catch myself cringing and thinking "how did I ever let that out of my studio??" At the time, though, I thought my mixes sounded as good as any of the stuff mixed by the big guys.
If your buddy steals all your tricks, I would put money down that whatever record he makes using all your secrets will sound great to his (inexperienced) ears, but cringeworthy to yours.
